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Apple enabling client-side CSAM scanning on iPhone tomorrow

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Re: Apple enabling client-side CSAM scanning on iPhone tomorrow

#31

Post by nbzso »

gruez wrote: post #28
nbzso wrote: post #23

Since Snowden I use my phone in minimalistic way. Phone calls. Minimal texting. No games. Banking apps if necessary. Treat your phones as an enemy. Use real computers with VPN and software like Little Snitch when online. Use cameras for photography and video. The benefits of this approach are immense. I have long attention span. I don't have fear of missing out. If governments wan't the future to be painted by tracin…

>Treat your phones as an enemy. Use real computers with VPN and software like Little Snitch when online. I'm assuming your "real computer" is a mac (since little snitch is mac only). What makes you think apple won't do the same for macos? Also, while you have greater control with a "real computer", you also have less privacy from the apps themselves, since they're unsandboxed and have full access to your system.

Not the right logic here. Check your idea more seriously. Mac os is just an example.

Re: Apple enabling client-side CSAM scanning on iPhone tomorrow

#32

Post by bigiain »

echelon wrote: post #25
ajsnigrutin wrote: post #3

So if I understand correctly, they want to scan all your photos, stored on your private phone, that you paid for, and they want to check if any of the hashes are the same as hashes of child porn? So... all your hashes will be uploaded to the cloud? How do you prevent them from scanning other stuff (memes, leaked documents, trump-fights-cnn-gif,... to profile the users)? Or will a huge hash database of child porn hash…

That document you downloaded that is critical of the party will land you and your family in jail. Enjoy your iPhone. Seriously, folks, we shouldn't celebrate Apple's death grip over their platform. It's dangerous for all of us. The more of you that use it, the more it creates a sort of "anti-herd immunity" towards totalitarian control. Apple talks "privacy", but jfc they're nothing of the sort. Apple gives zero shits…

> Stop. Using. Apple.

But is there a realistically better alternative? Pinephone with a personally audited Linux distro? A jailbroken Android device with a non-stock firmware that you built yourself? A homebuilt RaspberryPi based device? A paper notepad and a film camera and an out of print street map?

Re: Apple enabling client-side CSAM scanning on iPhone tomorrow

#33

Post by webmobdev »

Wow, this explains so much on why the Indian Government "withdrew" a letter seeking Apple's compliance with new IT surveillance rules - https://thewire.in/government/centre-withdrew-letter-seeking... ...

The indian government has recently introduced new laws that give them power to dictate terms over many online platforms and broaden their surveillance powers over online social media and messenger platforms. One of the laws dealing with messenger platforms requires the platform to track shared content, especially "origin of content" (first originator) of any content that is shared through their network. (Facebook / WhatsApp has already gone to the court to challenge this, as it claims that they would need to break end-to-end encryption for this and it thus violates indian privacy laws).

Apple's iMessage platform has more than 25 million users, and thus should come under the ambit of this law. But strangely, the indian government seems to have given them an "exception" .... and now we know why.

Re: Apple enabling client-side CSAM scanning on iPhone tomorrow

#34

Post by nbzso »

djd7duehrj wrote: post #29
nbzso wrote: post #23

Since Snowden I use my phone in minimalistic way. Phone calls. Minimal texting. No games. Banking apps if necessary. Treat your phones as an enemy. Use real computers with VPN and software like Little Snitch when online. Use cameras for photography and video. The benefits of this approach are immense. I have long attention span. I don't have fear of missing out. If governments wan't the future to be painted by tracin…

If you're treating your phone as hostile why would you skip gaming apps but use banking ones? That seems backwards if you're assuming your mobile is the weak point.

Actually we are the weak point. The phone stuff is just unregulated capitalism.

Re: Apple enabling client-side CSAM scanning on iPhone tomorrow

#35

Post by djd7duehrj »

ssklash wrote: post #17
BluSyn wrote: post #6

I understand the hesitation here, but fundamentally this is like trying to close pandoras box. If something is technically possible to do AND governments demand it be done, it will be done. If not by Apple, by someone else. Rather than complain about it, I am interested in what alternative solutions exist, or how concerns regarding privacy and abuse of this system could be mitigated.

I don't understand this argument at all. Look at the Clipper Chip debacle in the 90s. It was technically feasible and the government very much wanted to do it. And the reason they didn't is push back from the public, saying this is a bad idea that can easily be misused, even if it does make some law enforcement things easier. I don't see how this is any different. Sacrificing the privacy of the many to help catch a r…

This argument falls on it's head when confronted by reality. Either you have a trustworthy government already that will respect your rights in a slow-rolling fashion that shifts as the dialogue within the courts evolves or you already have a government that doesn't care about you and your laws/desires at all and which will do what it wants anyway. Unless you're in the ladder there's no reason to be so hostile to empowering technologies, especially when they're being used to fight some of the most heinous types of crime.

Re: Apple enabling client-side CSAM scanning on iPhone tomorrow

#36

Post by robbiet480 »

zepto wrote: post #22
robbiet480 wrote: post #2

This has worrying privacy implications. I hope Apple makes a public announcement about this but wouldn’t be surprised if they don’t. I also would expect EFF will get on this shortly.

What are the implications?

To quote another tweet from Matthew Green, the author of the Twitter thread (https://twitter.com/matthew_d_green/status/14231103447303495...):

> Regardless of what Apple’s long term plans are, they’ve sent a very clear signal. In their (very influential) opinion, it is safe to build systems that scan users’ phones for prohibited content.

> That’s the message they’re sending to governments, competing services, China, you.

Re: Apple enabling client-side CSAM scanning on iPhone tomorrow

#37

Post by aaronmdjones »

bigiain wrote: post #30
ajsnigrutin wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or regulation saying that this is illegal, because it invades users privacy too much.

Which'd be fine if we had one global government with world wide jurisdiction. Or technology choices from companies which couldn't be pressured by governments outside your personal regulation jurisdiction. I wouldn't hold your breath waiting for those regulations to become law in, say, Chine or Turkey or Saudi Arabia. I'd bet even Israel won't pass them, surely NSO have enough political lobbying swing (and probably al…

They sell software designed to break into people's phones to oppressive regimes all over the planet. They definitely have the capability and requisite lack of ethics to compromise their own politicians; there's no probably about it.

Re: Apple enabling client-side CSAM scanning on iPhone tomorrow

#38

Post by djd7duehrj »

nbzso wrote: post #34
djd7duehrj wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're treating your phone as hostile why would you skip gaming apps but use banking ones? That seems backwards if you're assuming your mobile is the weak point.

Actually we are the weak point. The phone stuff is just unregulated capitalism.

Sure, but that still leaves the question of why mobile banking and not mobile games w/ pc banking.

Re: Apple enabling client-side CSAM scanning on iPhone tomorrow

#39

Post by echelon »

bigiain wrote: post #32
echelon wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That document you downloaded that is critical of the party will land you and your family in jail. Enjoy your iPhone. Seriously, folks, we shouldn't celebrate Apple's death grip over their platform. It's dangerous for all of us. The more of you that use it, the more it creates a sort of "anti-herd immunity" towards totalitarian control. Apple talks "privacy", but jfc they're nothing of the sort. Apple gives zero shits…

> Stop. Using. Apple. But is there a realistically better alternative? Pinephone with a personally audited Linux distro? A jailbroken Android device with a non-stock firmware that you built yourself? A homebuilt RaspberryPi based device? A paper notepad and a film camera and an out of print street map?

Not really, and I'm not going to sway anyone deeply into the ecosystem.

My hope is that those of you that share my viewpoint will call your legislators and demand regulations or a break up. There are forces of good within the DOJ that are putting together an antitrust case against Apple, and the more of us that lend our voices, the louder and more compelling the argument.

The DOJ is really the last lever we have, and that's pretty good measure for the power Apple wields.

Re: Apple enabling client-side CSAM scanning on iPhone tomorrow

#40

Post by pseudalopex »

vmception wrote: post #7

That tweet thread is saying it will scan for hashes client side and upload the result, circumventing E2E encryption, but then says theyre just going to do it on your icloud backups because they dont have E2E encryption, so which is it? All?

It doesn't say that. Today Apple servers scan uploaded photos. Tomorrow Apple phones will scan uploaded photos. The next day Apple phones could scan not uploaded photos.
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