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So Apple is 'flailing,' eh? (re: TechCrunch story)

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Re: So Apple is 'flailing,' eh? (re: TechCrunch story)

#31

Post by demallien »

nadim wrote: post #23
jonknee wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And Daring Fireball is always full of animosity against anyone against Apple. Are they sponsored by Apple? Alas, fan boys need no corporate sponsorship to throw dirt from the trenches.

I'm not sure about in general, but I think they presented good supporting evidence in this case.

Not really, Arrington presented anecdotal evidence, and Gruber smacked him down with a survey contradicting the anecdotal evidence. Unless some new evidence comes to light, Gruber's point of view holds more weight.

Re: So Apple is 'flailing,' eh? (re: TechCrunch story)

#33

Post by sown »

I dunno...I've seen both sides of this issue.

I had an iBook 13" I got in 2002. Stayed with me for three years before the logic board start to go out on me; freeze ups, bad video, etc. It seems like it was either asleep or on, and always with me so I kind of expected it.

Another person I was acquainted with seemed to have this same problem but every few months or so. He got a few free Ti and iBooks out of them. Better to ask forgiveness, I guess.

Re: So Apple is 'flailing,' eh? (re: TechCrunch story)

#34

Post by gstar »

halo wrote: post #8

What is with Hacker News' obsession with Apple minutiae?

Don't know if PG has released browser stats for HN - but my guess is that Safari and Firefox on OS X would be fairly well represented.

Everyone likes news about their tools - ever seen a mechanics shop when the snap-on van pulls in?

Re: So Apple is 'flailing,' eh? (re: TechCrunch story)

#35

Post by narag »

demallien wrote: post #32
greyman wrote: post #15

>> But is Apple doing a far better job than any of its competitors? Yes. No.

So how do you interpret the survey results that Gruber presented?

I'm not greyman, but anyway... maybe the survey is detecting a different culture: people that owns a Mac gives higher scores to customer service not because it's better, but because they feel more satisfied with their computers. That feeling might come from many reasons. I wouldn't use it as an argument without a detailed survey that evaluates things like response time, charges for reparations, or kindness of personal.

Re: So Apple is 'flailing,' eh? (re: TechCrunch story)

#36

Post by demallien »

narag wrote: post #35
demallien wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So how do you interpret the survey results that Gruber presented?

I'm not greyman, but anyway... maybe the survey is detecting a different culture: people that owns a Mac gives higher scores to customer service not because it's better, but because they feel more satisfied with their computers. That feeling might come from many reasons. I wouldn't use it as an argument without a detailed survey that evaluates things like response time, charges for reparations, or kindness of persona…

That's not really a fair argument. There are always what-ifs that are possible. I could say, for example, 'Sure, General Relativity is OK, but how do we know that it works for that little patch of reality that is within the Oval Office. Has anybody tested it?'.

I mean, technically you are right, but the a priori interpretation of the survey results is that Apple does a better job of satisfying it's customers than do the competitors. That interpretation should stand unless someone comes up with a survey providing more detailed results that indeed shows a selection bias amongst Apple customers...

Re: So Apple is 'flailing,' eh? (re: TechCrunch story)

#37

Post by narag »

demallien wrote: post #36
narag wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not greyman, but anyway... maybe the survey is detecting a different culture: people that owns a Mac gives higher scores to customer service not because it's better, but because they feel more satisfied with their computers. That feeling might come from many reasons. I wouldn't use it as an argument without a detailed survey that evaluates things like response time, charges for reparations, or kindness of persona…

That's not really a fair argument. There are always what-ifs that are possible. I could say, for example, 'Sure, General Relativity is OK, but how do we know that it works for that little patch of reality that is within the Oval Office. Has anybody tested it?'. I mean, technically you are right, but the a priori interpretation of the survey results is that Apple does a better job of satisfying it's customers than do…

Why would I need a second survey? I already distrust the conclusion.

Re: So Apple is 'flailing,' eh? (re: TechCrunch story)

#38

Post by nuclear_eclipse »

keyes wrote: post #28

I love my MBP, but in my experience AppleCare support is horrible compared to the competition. If something goes wrong with your Dell laptop, they will send a technician out to you the next day and repair it on-site. If something goes wrong with your Mac, you have to make an appointment to take it to an Apple store, and you may have to leave it there for up to a week while it gets repaired.

> If something goes wrong with your Dell laptop, they will send a technician out to you the next day and repair it on-site.

Only if you paid extra for that service option. The default phone-support and ship-it-back-for-service warranties that you get with most Dell machines by default is likely no better than Apple.

However, I must say that if you get the upgraded support from Dell, especially the type that comes with their XPS line, they certainly have the best support service in the consumer PC industry. And turnaround time is fantastic; they paid to ship my XPS laptop to the service center and back, and I literally had it fixed and back in my hands in less than a week.

Re: So Apple is 'flailing,' eh? (re: TechCrunch story)

#39

Post by demallien »

narag wrote: post #37
demallien wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not really a fair argument. There are always what-ifs that are possible. I could say, for example, 'Sure, General Relativity is OK, but how do we know that it works for that little patch of reality that is within the Oval Office. Has anybody tested it?'. I mean, technically you are right, but the a priori interpretation of the survey results is that Apple does a better job of satisfying it's customers than do…

Why would I need a second survey? I already distrust the conclusion.

Yes, but it's a Russell's Teapot (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russell's_teapot) kind of argument. You're rejecting the survey results because they go against your prejudices, not based on evidence (or at least that seems to be what you are claiming, if you have evidence that Apple's performance vis-à-vis it's clients is sub-par, you certainly haven't presented it). And no matter what survey results that anyone could present to you, you'll always be able to respond by "ah yes, but you haven't disproved possible explanation X for these results".

Re: So Apple is 'flailing,' eh? (re: TechCrunch story)

#40

Post by narag »

demallien wrote: post #39
narag wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would I need a second survey? I already distrust the conclusion.

Yes, but it's a Russell's Teapot ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russell's_teapot ) kind of argument. You're rejecting the survey results because they go against your prejudices, not based on evidence (or at least that seems to be what you are claiming, if you have evidence that Apple's performance vis-à-vis it's clients is sub-par, you certainly haven't presented it). And no matter what survey results that anyone cou…

Please, if you want to disagree, disagree with what I've said, not with an arbitrary strawman.
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