Anonymous & Lulz Security Statement to the FBI • Hacker News Board

Re: Anonymous & Lulz Security Statement to the FBI

#31

Post by wladimir » Thu, Jul 21, 2011, 2:30 PM UTC

lhnz wrote: post #24

If I had the nerve I would join them. Bad-taste jokes and troublemaking. Badly written manifestos. But I think there are some in the groups who have their heart in the right place and want to do the right thing. And, illegal or not, I've yet to see any other form of western activism that is as disruptive as leaking/hacking.

I've yet to see any other form of western activism that is as disruptive as leaking/hacking

I think that nails it. These days, the internet is the backbone of our world. There is no form of activism more effective than taking control of online resources, or releasing information.

If a form of activism is socially acceptable it probably means it is not effective anymore. Why go on the street to just get beaten up - and ignored by the media - when hacking is so much more effective in garnering attention for your cause?

Re: Anonymous & Lulz Security Statement to the FBI

#32

Post by greyman » Thu, Jul 21, 2011, 2:30 PM UTC

DanielBMarkham wrote: post #26

Let's see, "Make impassioned speech then go break into the neighbor's house and scatter his secret documents all over the lawn" That makes a lot of sense now, doesn't it? Perhaps if you're seven. And drunk. Aside from the validity of the charges, this manner of social justice never ever works for the people who try it. Good grief, did we learn nothing from Ghandi or MLK Jr.? There's a perfectly legitimate and effecti…

Not that I disagree with you, but I would still like to read some good explanation why breaking into a private house is equivalent to hacking a website.

Re: Anonymous & Lulz Security Statement to the FBI

#33

Post by trafficlight » Thu, Jul 21, 2011, 2:33 PM UTC

smokinjoe wrote: post #30

ddw wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm racking my brain to think of a way to make a government "listen." Nope, can't think of any.

Vote intelligently.

Even if your state elects the smartest senator there has ever been, he still becomes part of the massive lumbering machine. And the machine is only as smart as it's dumbest person. The US Government has so much baggage now that it's nigh impossible to make anything but superficial changes.

Re: Anonymous & Lulz Security Statement to the FBI

#34

Post by hack_edu » Thu, Jul 21, 2011, 2:33 PM UTC

peterwwillis wrote: post #14

What are they gonna do when every govt/corporate website starts sanitizing its webapps' input and patching its network services? All they'll be able to do is DoS. Wouldn't it be funny if the FBI & associated agencies actually worked to increase the security of the nation's networks instead of acting surprised every time they get penetrated?

A significant goal of the movement is to bring to light just how insecure systems can be, and to not trust those who fail to protect. And to claim all they could do then is to DoS is the same BS write-off that you hear around here everyday, which is also disproven daily. Nothing is ever that secure.

But do you really think all this will cause govts/corporations the get more serious about security? Why now and not a decade, two decades ago?

Re: Anonymous & Lulz Security Statement to the FBI

#35

Post by smokeyj » Thu, Jul 21, 2011, 2:34 PM UTC

DanielBMarkham wrote: post #26

Let's see, "Make impassioned speech then go break into the neighbor's house and scatter his secret documents all over the lawn" That makes a lot of sense now, doesn't it? Perhaps if you're seven. And drunk. Aside from the validity of the charges, this manner of social justice never ever works for the people who try it. Good grief, did we learn nothing from Ghandi or MLK Jr.? There's a perfectly legitimate and effecti…

> Good grief, did we learn nothing from Ghandi

Civil disobedience is greater than violence? It's not like spreading information is violent..

> In short, the minute I start deciding on my own when to break the law

Ghandi and MLK broke the law, I doubt they would share your same sentiment. Sometimes disobedience is the only way. Ghandi was an anarchist, not sure if that discredits him in your eyes.

Re: Anonymous & Lulz Security Statement to the FBI

#36

Post by crikli » Thu, Jul 21, 2011, 2:36 PM UTC

ibejoeb wrote: post #27

JonnieCache wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It comes across to me as a deliberate, conscious and very effective attempt at mythmaking.

Sure, I don't doubt that it's deliberate. It's not the content of the message that I'm criticizing. It's precisely that, at least to me, it's being diminished by some of the silliness in the writing. "Hello thar," "Good Sir," really? That's how we speak? "The Anonymous bitchslap rings through your ears like hacktivism movements of the 90s." This sentence hurts me.

My minds eye always sees a '90s-era Seth Green character as the man behind the keyboard of Anonymous/LulzSec.

Re: Anonymous & Lulz Security Statement to the FBI

#37

Post by lucifer » Thu, Jul 21, 2011, 2:37 PM UTC

lhnz wrote: post #24

If I had the nerve I would join them. Bad-taste jokes and troublemaking. Badly written manifestos. But I think there are some in the groups who have their heart in the right place and want to do the right thing. And, illegal or not, I've yet to see any other form of western activism that is as disruptive as leaking/hacking.

> If I had the nerve I would join them.

.. having convinced yourself it is not the ultimate meta-honey-pot.

Re: Anonymous & Lulz Security Statement to the FBI

#38

Post by JonnieCache » Thu, Jul 21, 2011, 2:39 PM UTC

ibejoeb wrote: post #27

JonnieCache wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It comes across to me as a deliberate, conscious and very effective attempt at mythmaking.

Sure, I don't doubt that it's deliberate. It's not the content of the message that I'm criticizing. It's precisely that, at least to me, it's being diminished by some of the silliness in the writing. "Hello thar," "Good Sir," really? That's how we speak? "The Anonymous bitchslap rings through your ears like hacktivism movements of the 90s." This sentence hurts me.

All the "good sir", "hello thar", monocle stuff dates back to the SA forums, which is where 4chan originally grew out of amongst other places. It was considered funny by some, but quickly grew out of control as people with no working sense of humour took up meme-repetition as a substitute.

There was a time when you could get your account deleted for saying "good sir" on SA, it was that prevalent and annoying.

A lot of the lulzsec schtick reads like classic SA banter, I wouldn't be surprised if topiary used to post there. It could just be because of the aforementioned SA-->4chan lineage.

Re: Anonymous & Lulz Security Statement to the FBI

#39

Post by ddw » Thu, Jul 21, 2011, 2:41 PM UTC

smokinjoe wrote: post #30

ddw wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm racking my brain to think of a way to make a government "listen." Nope, can't think of any.

Vote intelligently.

An uninformed electorate isn't helping, but I don't see how voting is going to fix this.

I'm starting to believe that the smart people just don't want to be politicians. It's a good way to become rich and famous, though.

Re: Anonymous & Lulz Security Statement to the FBI

#40

Post by darksaga » Thu, Jul 21, 2011, 2:41 PM UTC

I wonder if they'll ever understand the people they're trying to protect are actually the victims in their actions.

They hack Sony. Sony loses millions. How do you think they're going to recapture their loses? By passing the loss onto consumers. Increased prices for TV's, games, anything Sony makes is going to increase in price to recoup their loses.

Clearly they haven't thought this all the way through.