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Hungarian journalists and critics of Orbán were targeted with Pegasus

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Re: Hungarian journalists and critics of Orbán were targeted with Pegasus

#31

Post by wrnr »

bwb wrote: post #11

I always am amazed by how many people value their nation over larger groups of human beings who are just like them... isn't it time to up our game as humans and start thinking bigger? Why not abolish nations within the EU and just become the EU with different provinces? Nationalism is an ancient mentality, get rid of it and start moving into larger groups who can do more. I keep reading about the North American Allia…

Lets merge all soccer clubs into one, then there will no longer be a need for matches since one club just has all the players they don't even need to be the best.

Nationalism is a very recent affair, the idea that people and not just the nobility have nations is a 19 century concept.

Re: Hungarian journalists and critics of Orbán were targeted with Pegasus

#32

Post by paganel »

poisonborz wrote: post #28

If there is one single lasting international effect of Orbán and his party, it's how he demonstrated how EU is completely helpless against rouge states (as well). The delicate political balance of its parliamental politics make it impossible to react to any complex, even if lethal threats. The EU funds and fuels a Belorussian-style regime in its own heartland for a decade now, and all they can do are angry notices an…

> The EU funds and fuels a Belorussian-style regime

Afaik Orban's party has won the last rounds of elections pretty conclusively, with no fraud allegations involved (unlike what currently happens in the US, I'm talking about election fraud allegations). What's with this "Belorussian-style regime" nonsense?

Re: Hungarian journalists and critics of Orbán were targeted with Pegasus

#33

Post by upgrejd »

tobltobs wrote: post #26
jsbdk wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not defending his actions as I have no horse in this race, but he seems to have the support of his country - why should the EU be above that?

The EU shouldn't be above that. But when Hungary doesn't like the rules of the EU it should leave. Of course it never will, as it is depending on the 3.000.000.000 Euro yearly support.

Why would they leave when they can have the cake and eat it?

Re: Hungarian journalists and critics of Orbán were targeted with Pegasus

#34

Post by dogma1138 »

trasz wrote: post #25
dogma1138 wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s hard to issue these ultimatums when in Germany the constitution is supreme too and the courts would and do take it over EU law when there is conflict.

Except they don't. Please don't spread polish government's propaganda.

Except they do https://www.politico.eu/article/eu-prepares-legal-action-aga...

Overall the EU has about the same number of procedures open against Germany as they do against Poland, both are pretty high on the list Germany is #5 Poland is #4.

Re: Hungarian journalists and critics of Orbán were targeted with Pegasus

#35

Post by blocked_again »

reader_mode wrote: post #30
blocked_again wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

India does this already. With 3x more population and probably has much more diversity and cultural differences than EU.

By that logic India and Pakistan should also merge.

No your logic was it's not possible to have a country with so much diversity. I just showed a counter example.

Re: Hungarian journalists and critics of Orbán were targeted with Pegasus

#36

Post by msravi »

daliusd wrote: post #20
bwb wrote: post #11

I always am amazed by how many people value their nation over larger groups of human beings who are just like them... isn't it time to up our game as humans and start thinking bigger? Why not abolish nations within the EU and just become the EU with different provinces? Nationalism is an ancient mentality, get rid of it and start moving into larger groups who can do more. I keep reading about the North American Allia…

How do you abolish nation? What's wrong with current EU situation endorsing diversity? You can federate EU and abolish national governments and that's happening slowly.

Even if you were to abolish the national governments you would still need a local government that can always be at odds with the central government, right?

But if you abolish these local governments as well, then you're basically imposing central diktats on a population, correct?

How do you resolve the dichotomy?

Re: Hungarian journalists and critics of Orbán were targeted with Pegasus

#37

Post by paganel »

bwb wrote: post #11

I always am amazed by how many people value their nation over larger groups of human beings who are just like them... isn't it time to up our game as humans and start thinking bigger? Why not abolish nations within the EU and just become the EU with different provinces? Nationalism is an ancient mentality, get rid of it and start moving into larger groups who can do more. I keep reading about the North American Allia…

> their nation over larger groups of human beings who are just like them.

Because when the going gets really tough that abstract "human being" from across the Continent won't care at all about you, while at the same time the person geographically closer to you and who might belong to the same nation might prove to be a better ally. Just think of the Greece crisis of 2012 when the "human beings" from The Netherlands were generally just assholes to their fellow human beings who happened to live in Athens or in Thessaloniki.

Re: Hungarian journalists and critics of Orbán were targeted with Pegasus

#38

Post by upgrejd »

wrnr wrote: post #31
bwb wrote: post #11

I always am amazed by how many people value their nation over larger groups of human beings who are just like them... isn't it time to up our game as humans and start thinking bigger? Why not abolish nations within the EU and just become the EU with different provinces? Nationalism is an ancient mentality, get rid of it and start moving into larger groups who can do more. I keep reading about the North American Allia…

Lets merge all soccer clubs into one, then there will no longer be a need for matches since one club just has all the players they don't even need to be the best. Nationalism is a very recent affair, the idea that people and not just the nobility have nations is a 19 century concept.

Nationalism may be relatively young but tribalism has existed as long as humans. Nationalism just happens to be the most successful form of tribalism.

Re: Hungarian journalists and critics of Orbán were targeted with Pegasus

#39

Post by mola »

All of Netanyahu's allies in the world seem to have profited from this relationship by obtaining military grade surveillance inorder to suppress human rights of journalists and opposition.

This is Netanyahu's legacy, a proto dictator, arming dictators.

I'm convince pegasus was used against Israeli journalists, opposition leaders and law enforcement officials. Too bad our political system is still under his thumb and doesn't shed light on this crap even now that he's no longer PM.

Re: Hungarian journalists and critics of Orbán were targeted with Pegasus

#40

Post by seaknoll »

bwb wrote: post #11

I always am amazed by how many people value their nation over larger groups of human beings who are just like them... isn't it time to up our game as humans and start thinking bigger? Why not abolish nations within the EU and just become the EU with different provinces? Nationalism is an ancient mentality, get rid of it and start moving into larger groups who can do more. I keep reading about the North American Allia…

Isn’t it all just a question of what scale is the “best”? I agree with your premise but in practice, determining the best policies on trade - much less issues like education and poverty - on a smaller scale is much more tractable than thinking in terms of ever larger subsets of the human race. We should be just as saddened by civilians dying in Iraq as the US, but that doesn’t mean we know what’s best for them in terms of any of the above. Any grouping of people advocating for themselves ultimately needs an organizing body, and the cycle of tribalism continues.
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