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Jeff Bezos’ Dystopian Legacy Goes Far Beyond Amazon

thewire.in

31–40 of 277 posts

Re: Jeff Bezos’ Dystopian Legacy Goes Far Beyond Amazon

#31

Isn't Amazon's fear of running out of people a sign of the market correcting this?

Not quite a sign of the market correcting this, but rather a possibility of the market correcting it. It all depends on whether Amazon's fears motivate them to improve their behaviour, or whether market forces make said improvements unnecessary or they find alternative solutions that are better aligned with their own interests but do not actually improve the wellbeing of their workers.

Re: Jeff Bezos’ Dystopian Legacy Goes Far Beyond Amazon

#32
post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I don't like the economic resource discrepancy in that case, there was mutually dirty fighting.. the ballot language on Prop 22 by the AG was what I would consider literal propaganda. What they lack in economic resources, they make up for in political power via bureaucratic control.

I don't know how anyone could seriously hold the position that labor and corporate interests are on equal footing in any way. The history of the last 40 years in US labor relations has been a very consistent trend towards the consolidation of corporate power, alongside the erosion of labor's power.

So 2 things:

1) I do not believe they are in equal footing generally and never stated that - I was pointing out the nuances with respect to Prop 22. Gig cos. didn't win just because they had more money - they won because AB5 is a despised policy.

2) Unions != Labor. Workers == Labor. This is the key point I'm trying to make.

Re: Jeff Bezos’ Dystopian Legacy Goes Far Beyond Amazon

#33
post #6
post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You know that decades of anti-union propaganda is still in effect when individuals are convinced that working together with other individuals and pooling their resources to improve their working conditions is a bad thing. Of course when companies do it - through trade associations or lobbying - it's seen as natural and necessary for their survival.

Speaking from practice in a country where unions are a traditional thing, strong unions can and will screw over a workplace. It's usually about a show of power and abusing veto ability to stay in power until the place stagnates, loses competitive status and disintegrates.

Bad unions are bad and the sky is blue. It should be pretty self-explanatory that nobody is gonna defend unions which "screw over the workplace", it's a straw-man. But some people still defend unions.. so, a more honest question would be: what do they think is a good union then? What should a union strive to do? What are the critics they agree with?

Re: Jeff Bezos’ Dystopian Legacy Goes Far Beyond Amazon

#34
post #4

Reading articles like this makes me appreciate living in the EU. It's not always great, but clearly it could be worse. Article 1 of the EU Charter of Fundamental Rights states "Human dignity is inviolable. It must be respected and protected." I feel like that would be broken were we to allow this behaviour towards workers.

[deleted]

Re: Jeff Bezos’ Dystopian Legacy Goes Far Beyond Amazon

#35
post #4

Reading articles like this makes me appreciate living in the EU. It's not always great, but clearly it could be worse. Article 1 of the EU Charter of Fundamental Rights states "Human dignity is inviolable. It must be respected and protected." I feel like that would be broken were we to allow this behaviour towards workers.

Particularly countries like Poland and Hungary, they are very respectful of Article 1. Or Germany making so much business with China and Russia. Don't kid yourself thinking that the EU is a special place that is somewhat exempt of any of this.

There are certainly scales, it's not all uniform. But the EU is a big place and people are free to pick which country they live in. It's disingenuous to suggest it's all the same thing.

The larger point of EU workers having more rights is, on average, very true. The US (and China and Russia) treats their workers very poorly by comparison.

Re: Jeff Bezos’ Dystopian Legacy Goes Far Beyond Amazon

#36
post #4

Reading articles like this makes me appreciate living in the EU. It's not always great, but clearly it could be worse. Article 1 of the EU Charter of Fundamental Rights states "Human dignity is inviolable. It must be respected and protected." I feel like that would be broken were we to allow this behaviour towards workers.

Particularly countries like Poland and Hungary, they are very respectful of Article 1. Or Germany making so much business with China and Russia. Don't kid yourself thinking that the EU is a special place that is somewhat exempt of any of this.

Are you suggesting that the EU would be identical without Article 1 in place?

Re: Jeff Bezos’ Dystopian Legacy Goes Far Beyond Amazon

#37

Isn't Amazon's fear of running out of people a sign of the market correcting this?

They're in no danger of running out of people to employ. Social safety nets are too weak and economic conditions for the poor are too precarious that there are plenty of people willing to endure abusive conditions for a paycheck. The high turnover rate only ensures that they end up employing the most desperate and vulnerable.

Not if the alternative to working for Amazon is, well, death by starvation. People say communism falls apart once subjects stop having reasonably similar goals. Market economy is certainly more resistant to this, but is it infinitely more resistant? How far can we push inequality before that becomes an issue?

Edit: That was meant as a response to the parent comment.

Re: Jeff Bezos’ Dystopian Legacy Goes Far Beyond Amazon

#38
post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Particularly countries like Poland and Hungary, they are very respectful of Article 1. Or Germany making so much business with China and Russia. Don't kid yourself thinking that the EU is a special place that is somewhat exempt of any of this.

Are you suggesting that the EU would be identical without Article 1 in place?

Considering many states outright ignore Article 1, yes

Re: Jeff Bezos’ Dystopian Legacy Goes Far Beyond Amazon

#40

Isn't Amazon's fear of running out of people a sign of the market correcting this?

They're in no danger of running out of people to employ. Social safety nets are too weak and economic conditions for the poor are too precarious that there are plenty of people willing to endure abusive conditions for a paycheck. The high turnover rate only ensures that they end up employing the most desperate and vulnerable.

I mean, they've literally been discussing this as a risk themselves internally, so I'm not sure how you can be so sure of that.
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