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Inventor harvests methane gas from ditches and ponds to power his moped

notechmagazine.com

31–40 of 181 posts

Re: Inventor harvests methane gas from ditches and ponds to power his moped

#31
post #3

If you want to do this seriously, you could probably do quite well by creating biogas from kitchen scraps: https://www.motherearthnews.com/renewable-energy/other-renew...

No, you probably can't. To make biogas on any reasonable scale is at least a village-scale thing; a single family/household cannot easily produce sufficient raw-material to manufacture useful amounts of methane unless you commit to growing biomass just for conversion. (See also another comment below where livestock are involved, so another path to a sufficiency of raw material.)

I was very keen on the idea of making my own biogas (for cooking) when starting out in my self-sufficiency efforts some >25y ago, and the entire sewage system is designed to make conversion to biogas production easy, but the reality is it's just not ever going to produce any significant quantity of methane without some serious supplementation. Add to that, biogas digesters slow down significantly in Winter, even here where we never get freezing temps. In places that experience serious Winters you need to figure out ways to heat(!) the digester to keep it working lest the raw material inputs back up and cause... a mess that will thaw in Springtime with (cough) challenging results.

Re: Inventor harvests methane gas from ditches and ponds to power his moped

#32
post #29
post #3

If you want to do this seriously, you could probably do quite well by creating biogas from kitchen scraps: https://www.motherearthnews.com/renewable-energy/other-renew...

You can probably do that, but don't delude yourself that you're doing anything for the environment. Methane itself is a very potent greenhouse gas. Everything you do with methane is only environmentally friendly if you have a very low leakage rate. Whatever homegrown DIY biogas facility you're creating very likely does not do that.

If you're collecting something that would be produced anyway, it's going to be a net bonus.

Re: Inventor harvests methane gas from ditches and ponds to power his moped

#34
Searching for the terms "secu" and "safe" doesn't yield any results. I know this is more of an art project, but in a photo he's driving through a city. What are the security implications of this?

Also searching for "poly" doesn't yield any results, so I'm left to hope that the is using polycarbonate to provide some kind of safety shielding in case things go south.

Also not on http://uitsloot.nl/sloot-motor/

Re: Inventor harvests methane gas from ditches and ponds to power his moped

#35
post #10
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

True, but methane has a much stronger greenhouse effects than the resulting CO2 and water vapor. So that's still net-positive.

Actually, H2O is the most potent common greenhouse gas, then methane, and then CO2. If you burn methane (CH4) you end up with 2 molecules of H20 and one of CO2. Which to me would seem to be worse than one molecule of CH4 - but I might be wrong. Perhaps someone more knowledgeable could comment?

Water is the biggest contributor to the greenhouse effect (~60% of the total), but that's because it's the most abundant by far (wikipedia indicates about 0.25% globally [0], by mass, which translates to something like half a percent by volume; meanwhile CO2 is 0.04% and CH4 is 0.0002% by volume). And as others mentioned, it's mostly not human-generated, and it stays in the air for a much shorter period of time (on the order of days instead of years or centuries because of a localized phenomenon called, um, rain).

Methane, on the other hand, is much more than 2x as potent as CO2 (estimates range from 21x to 40x the warming effect over the span of 100 years, but most are centered around 25x, when taking into consideration that that methane's atmospheric lifetime is only ~12 years).

You could argue that there's a 3x multiplier in the comparable difference in weight, but you've still got an 8x multiplier. Even if we assume that CO2 and H2O are comparable in terms of warming potential by volume (it's hard to measure H2O for various reasons), there's still a 3x multiplier over that 100-year period, compared to 1x CO2 and 2x H2O.

Why would some molecules be more potent than others? It's a matter of the infrared wavelengths they absorb, but in particular how they cover the spectrum relative to other atmospheric gases. CO2 absorbs strongly in parts of the spectrum that H2O absorbs more weakly, and CH4 absorbs strongly in parts that aren't covered by either CO2 or H2O [2].

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atmosphere_of_Earth#Compositio...

[1] https://www.epa.gov/ghgemissions/overview-greenhouse-gases#C... - "Pound for pound, the comparative impact of CH4 is 25 times greater than CO2 over a 100-year period."

[2] https://www.acs.org/content/acs/en/climatescience/greenhouse... which depicts the absorption spectra for various gases on the right: https://www.acs.org/content/acs/en/climatescience/greenhouse...

Re: Inventor harvests methane gas from ditches and ponds to power his moped

#36

> Eight hours of hoeing in a ditch supplies him with enough fuel to ride his vehicle for 20 km Hmm, this is an art project but you can cycle 20km fairly leisurely in an hour. 8 hours of toiling in the ditches probably might be better used growing vegetables so your food isn’t being driven in?

Maybe, maybe not. It isn't like most folks can live off of a garden plot of a normal house, if you even have a garden plot. I cannot cycle 20km fairly leisurely in an hour: I live in a mountainous area, but lived most of my life on flat ground and going uphill is freaking difficult, even if I'm going at a leisurely speed - and sometimes, downhill is brakes all the way down. And I don't know how much this person drive…

Fair enough, but my main point was that cycling or walking 20km probably consumes less energy than the “hard work” of harvesting methane for 8 hours.

Re: Inventor harvests methane gas from ditches and ponds to power his moped

#38

I'm not sure disrupting the ecosystem at the bottom of the pond is an ecologically sound move. Biodiversity is important! Obviously I understand this is a proof of concept and not the solution to fossil fuels.

it probably speeds things up rather than killing them, and you know on the scale of BP pouring millions of oil into the ocean, I reckon what this guy is doing is absoloutley fine and the environmental damage is well within range of what the local environment can cope with and recover from within a reasonably small time frame.

Re: Inventor harvests methane gas from ditches and ponds to power his moped

#39

> Eight hours of hoeing in a ditch supplies him with enough fuel to ride his vehicle for 20 km Hmm, this is an art project but you can cycle 20km fairly leisurely in an hour. 8 hours of toiling in the ditches probably might be better used growing vegetables so your food isn’t being driven in?

One could easily walk 20km in 8 hours.

Re: Inventor harvests methane gas from ditches and ponds to power his moped

#40

Wood gas vehicles were, well not uncommon: https://www.lowtechmagazine.com/2010/01/wood-gas-cars.html Due to the need for oil (major cause of second world war anyway) Nazi Germany produce 1/2 million cars run on wood gas. (Had to google this but just remembered the image from "The Knowledge" well worth a read: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Knowledge-Rebuild-World-After-Apoca... )

Saw a few pictures from North Korea using something like that.

It's actually more interesting than I thought!

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