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The Death of the Festival

charleseisenstein.org

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Re: The Death of the Festival

#31

Post by michaelt »

ElViajero wrote: post #2

> We know the rules of society are arbitrary, set up so that the show can be played out to its conclusion. This seems wrong to me. Most society rules have a reason to exist. Maybe, in the past century a few of that rules have become obsolete. But humanity is excellent at creating rules that makes things good enough to keep going. There is nothing that makes a society change its rules like a change on the environment.…

> Most society rules have a reason to exist.

Well, it depends how broad your definition of 'rules' is.

I've known people who consider it a 'rule' that when wearing a suit you should not do up the jacket's bottom button.

I can imagine a person who used this expansive definition might see a great many rules as arbitrary; and enjoy a festival where rules could be broken.

Re: The Death of the Festival

#33

Post by spurgu »

ElViajero wrote: post #2

> We know the rules of society are arbitrary, set up so that the show can be played out to its conclusion. This seems wrong to me. Most society rules have a reason to exist. Maybe, in the past century a few of that rules have become obsolete. But humanity is excellent at creating rules that makes things good enough to keep going. There is nothing that makes a society change its rules like a change on the environment.…

> > We know the rules of society are arbitrary, set up so that the show can be played out to its conclusion.

> This seems wrong to me. Most society rules have a reason to exist.

They do have a reason to exist but that doesn't mean the rules are not arbitrary.

Stop signs for example. They actually indicate that extra caution should be taken at the crossing. Actually stopping is rarely a necessity unless you want to obey the law to the letter. It's an arbitrary rule designed to decrease local accidents.

Flirting at the workplace is another. It's more complex, but it's still an arbitrary rule, one that we might do without, it's all about what specifically we're trying to achieve (less romantic/sexual complications - positive and negative - at the workplace) with this arbitrary rule.

There are less arbitrary rules of course, like not hurting other people, but most rules governing day-to-day life are highly arbitrary, to the point where you live an incredibly boring life unless you're a "criminal" - I don't stop at all stop signs for example, which by definition makes me a criminal. I also use drugs recreationally.

> Festivals are not to for "blow off steam".

Depends on the type of festival. I'd say all of them offer a fresh experience out of the regular day-to-day life (which could be defined as "blowing off steam"). Some might be more "transcendent" than others.

Re: The Death of the Festival

#34

Post by worldsayshi »

eplanit wrote: post #28
Trufa wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m honestly not sure what he means. I may disagree with most, but I’m just surprised about people stopping reading when they hear something they disagree with. It’s not even the central point of the article.

It's stopping reading at a sentence dripping with pseudo intellectualism. When writers try too hard to sound intelligent and erudite it's off-putting, and a "bullshit" indicator.

I agree that it puts me off as well but it's also feels a bit like a no true Scotsman fallacy. If we're always on the lookout for "bad words" then we will eventually set up impossible standards for how we speak.

Re: The Death of the Festival

#35

Post by derekp7 »

spurgu wrote: post #33
ElViajero wrote: post #2

> We know the rules of society are arbitrary, set up so that the show can be played out to its conclusion. This seems wrong to me. Most society rules have a reason to exist. Maybe, in the past century a few of that rules have become obsolete. But humanity is excellent at creating rules that makes things good enough to keep going. There is nothing that makes a society change its rules like a change on the environment.…

> > We know the rules of society are arbitrary, set up so that the show can be played out to its conclusion. > This seems wrong to me. Most society rules have a reason to exist. They do have a reason to exist but that doesn't mean the rules are not arbitrary. Stop signs for example. They actually indicate that extra caution should be taken at the crossing. Actually stopping is rarely a necessity unless you want to ob…

There is a really good reason for stopping fully at a stop sign. If your speed and that of the cross traffic vehicle is matched appropriately, the vehicle will occupy the same position (remain stationary) in your field of view. That can cause you to miss seeing the car. By stopping then looking, the car will appear in motion against a still background making it much more likely to stand out.

Re: The Death of the Festival

#36

Post by spurgu »

Trufa wrote: post #22
secretsatan wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not what he means and you know it.

I’m honestly not sure what he means. I may disagree with most, but I’m just surprised about people stopping reading when they hear something they disagree with. It’s not even the central point of the article.

Yeah this is a major problem in the political landscape overall. Like for example refusing to read anything by conservatives just because you happen to disagree with them on abortion issues. You're going to be a) missing out on a lot of insights and b) even worse, create a divide where you can't even understand the other side anymore just because you outright refuse to hear them out.

I tripped on that sentence myself but continued reading since it seemed like a minor point to the actual story and I wasn't disappointed.

Re: The Death of the Festival

#37

Post by rozab »

dr_dshiv wrote: post #23
secretsatan wrote: post #10

Stopped reading at `Systemic use of natural and alternative healing modalities could vastly reduce covid mortality`

Physical exercise, breathwork, healthy diets and diverse immune exposure all seem rather "holistic" and yet seem rather likely to reduce covid mortality -- perhaps much more so than, say, Remdesvir

When people refer to natural or alternative medicine, they're not usually talking about common sense lifestyle changes universally endorsed by the medical establishment. That's just regular medicine.

Re: The Death of the Festival

#38

Post by mbg721 »

This is mixing up the cause and the effect. What's happening isn't society fracturing for lack of occasions to break the rules, it's that society can't invent occasions to break the rules if it can't agree what the rules are. Which side of the culture war is going to be given up when "violent unanimity" is achieved at the end of the festival?

Re: The Death of the Festival

#39

Post by spurgu »

derekp7 wrote: post #35
spurgu wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> > We know the rules of society are arbitrary, set up so that the show can be played out to its conclusion. > This seems wrong to me. Most society rules have a reason to exist. They do have a reason to exist but that doesn't mean the rules are not arbitrary. Stop signs for example. They actually indicate that extra caution should be taken at the crossing. Actually stopping is rarely a necessity unless you want to ob…

There is a really good reason for stopping fully at a stop sign. If your speed and that of the cross traffic vehicle is matched appropriately, the vehicle will occupy the same position (remain stationary) in your field of view. That can cause you to miss seeing the car. By stopping then looking, the car will appear in motion against a still background making it much more likely to stand out.

Sure, that's a good point, but it also applies to crossings without stop signs. :)

Re: The Death of the Festival

#40

Post by dandellion »

dr_dshiv wrote: post #23
secretsatan wrote: post #10

Stopped reading at `Systemic use of natural and alternative healing modalities could vastly reduce covid mortality`

Physical exercise, breathwork, healthy diets and diverse immune exposure all seem rather "holistic" and yet seem rather likely to reduce covid mortality -- perhaps much more so than, say, Remdesvir

> Physical exercise, breathwork, healthy diets and diverse immune exposure

I've gone to "mainstream healing" doctors and they always recommend exercise, have a good diet, etc. When people say "alternative healing" that's not usually what they mean.

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