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DevOps is dead. But what will replace it?

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Re: DevOps is dead. But what will replace it?

#31
post #17
post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

DevOps is about sharing common goals and working towards them in collaboration. It's not a role, not a team and not tools.

i think there's a clash of definition in that thread. Devops originaly was a job title for sysadmins with high automation skills and able to deploy to a cloud. it later evolved to something much more management related.

Depends who you ask. Everyone seems to invent the definition that local-optimize for themselves. The book Good To Great goes into the dynamics, outside of IT, so is a general pattern.

Re: DevOps is dead. But what will replace it?

#32
post #14

This is a garbage quality post but the underlying premise I think is fair. I’ve heard much more reputable people like Kelsey Hightower make similar claims recently. Just as a matter of personal interest I spent the last year looking into the question of how close could a small and possibly even competent one person team get to doing “cloud native” “best practices” from day one if they made the right choices. My asses…

> Running Kubernetes for example has in just the past couple of months potentially become a genuinely hands off exercise thanks to GKE Autopilot where you can just throw containers at it and it will just work and do the right thing by default.

I never heard of Autopilot before but it sounds like what AWS has had for a while with Fargate where you don't need to manage your worker nodes, instead you define what compute resources you want and what tier of instances they should run on (CPU optimized, general, etc.).

Things like this are definitely a very welcome change but running a production workload on Kubernetes is still no where near a hands off exercise, even with the cluster creation and scaling aspect abstracted away. There's still learning, using and applying Kubernetes.

Sure once you have the knowledge and experience you might only need something like 200-250 lines of YAML to run a production grade stateless web app service on your cluster including a few bells and whistles like external-dns but getting there isn't hands off and things are changing, then there's also figuring out how to automate all of this into a CI / CD pipeline and ensuring any services being built are architected to run in a load balanced container friendly way (using object storage, generally stateless, env variables, etc.). Not all of these things are a given.

I just mostly went through this path in the last few months while working part time for a client. I'm basically at the point of wrapping things up with external-dns and it's taken around 80 hours to get there. That's not including automating all of this in CI yet too. In end there's no way I would classify myself as an expert either, there's still a lot left to learn, but that timeframe includes learning Kubernetes from scratch after already having worked with Docker / Ansible for 6+ years and being comfortable with sysadmin / ops tasks in general. It wasn't the hardest thing in the world but it wasn't anywhere near hands off. It was like learning any other complex piece of software. A crazy amount of trial and error while reading the docs and scouring the internet for as many resources as you can find.

The same process happened with Serverless too. It took a different amount of time to get a function running in a production ready way but there were a ton of things to learn along the way.

In both cases this required spending a lot of time learning things that a lot of developers either don't care about or don't have time to learn because they are busy developing business features. IMO the demand for ops style roles will never go away, even going with the highest level of abstraction with Heroku requires spending time setting it all up and keeping things in check.

Re: DevOps is dead. But what will replace it?

#33
post #2

So.. serverless apps will not require managing tons of vms and containers, so devops workload reduces 80%? Am I comprehending point? And prognosis is serverless apps will dominate? I mean, in my small world of using azure app services, azure functions and CI/CD, that makes sense. I work on relatively small and tailored solutions though.

I'm in the process of migrating a handful of small internal systems from azure to AWS - azure is miles ahead in this regard so you're likely looking at it from the perspective of someone using the best tooling available. Setting up Azure Container Instances, or even Azure webapp compared to fargate/elastic beanstalk is just night and day

Re: DevOps is dead. But what will replace it?

#36
Here we go again.

The view in this article is that DevOps is a role, it was never meant to be this way.

The whole purpose of DevOps was to break down barriers between Dev and Ops, by not creating specialist roles and allowing developers to take ownership of ops, removing the need for the SysAdmin gates.

Instead what this article highlights is that we’ve moved the complexity to specialist tools which require another specialist role.

I would say this suggests you’re solving the wrong problem.

Re: DevOps is dead. But what will replace it?

#37
We are getting more and more servers, more containers, more complex, dynamic infrastructure, more API driven infrastructure etc. All of this is driven with automation created by DevOps engineers. In addition, there is an absolute mountain of old stuff to modernise and automate.

DevOps is going nowhere. It’s day 1.

Re: DevOps is dead. But what will replace it?

#38
post #26

Its a very poorly written article with all the buzzwords one can think of. DevOps is not even remotely close to dead, but rather evolved a lot. Gone are the days, when one could easily ssh into remote prod systems and fix the issue. With shell less Docker images and container orchestration tools (hashicorp stack), CI/CD pipelines, blue-green deployments etc, Devops has become a lot more sophisticated than before.

> Its a very poorly written article with all the buzzwords one can think of.

Agreed. Reminds me of articles and blogs that GitLab team publishes these days.

Re: DevOps is dead. But what will replace it?

#39
post #36

Here we go again. The view in this article is that DevOps is a role, it was never meant to be this way. The whole purpose of DevOps was to break down barriers between Dev and Ops, by not creating specialist roles and allowing developers to take ownership of ops, removing the need for the SysAdmin gates. Instead what this article highlights is that we’ve moved the complexity to specialist tools which require another s…

I’ve never really gotten this argument. People can go really deep on Terraform, Cloud Automation, CI/CD, containerisation etc without being developers or sysadmins.

“DevOps Engineer” fits that role perfectly in spite of the breaking-down-siloes goodness.

Re: DevOps is dead. But what will replace it?

#40
post #36

Here we go again. The view in this article is that DevOps is a role, it was never meant to be this way. The whole purpose of DevOps was to break down barriers between Dev and Ops, by not creating specialist roles and allowing developers to take ownership of ops, removing the need for the SysAdmin gates. Instead what this article highlights is that we’ve moved the complexity to specialist tools which require another s…

It is more than a role, in many companies it even has a career path.
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