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Link rot and content drift are endemic to the web

theatlantic.com

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Re: Link rot and content drift are endemic to the web

#31

Post by tenebrisalietum »

djoldman wrote: post #3

> People tend to overlook the decay of the modern web, when in fact these numbers are extraordinary—they represent a comprehensive breakdown in the chain of custody for facts. This is a particularly good quote to sum up the article. The internet is not a repository of facts, it is a repository of facts, spam, junk, and things . Moreover, it is not the only repository of these. Link rot happens. Content is subject to…

This is why when I see something I like on a website, I might bookmark it, but I'm also saving it locally.

Re: Link rot and content drift are endemic to the web

#32

Post by Avamander »

zanderwohl wrote: post #26
AnIdiotOnTheNet wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wish there was something like Reddit that could be organized by topic, but had the simplicity of HN's design instead of the monstrocity Reddit has become. My guess is it would still succumb to the Reddit Hive Mind effect without a reasonably benevolent moderation team though. For all the times I've said that HN basically does the same thing, I have to admit that it is much better about keeping it in check.

Reddit has been pushing to be like other social media sites now. They've added profile pictures and avatars, not to mention they're pushing video content like nothing else. They've got livestreaming and try to saturate your front page with as much video as possible. They've also changed the way their app handles video links to be more like TikTok or YouTube. It used to be a lot like HN - discussions around links to a…

> It feels like all social media is converging; Snapchat, Instagram, Facebook, Reddit, TikTok, Youtube, all an endless stream of ai-curated short videos that you can swipe through over and over.

It's likely that AI curation is the future because no humans can shift through the vast amounts of data and content being made. Things that can't keep up without curation or with just human curation have died or will die.

Good AI curation can bring you the exact content you're looking for, can but not will. I've seen it work times and times again, but I've also noticed that you have to be aware of the flaws of the tool to be able to use them or it gets really bad really quick.

You can't let the AI take control, if it derails to content you don't like you must know what it uses as a quality signal and give it a thumbs down, if it is intentionally derailed, you must stop using the platform.

TikTok recently released an update to their algorithm, it ruined my FYP and replaced my content with inane videos made by people nearby - hyperlocal garbage. The feedback mechanisms given no longer work, before that update they did.

I do think that even people being nostalgic here about the "old internet" should try and learn how to turn AI curation for their own advantage instead of just being sad and nostalgic.

Re: Link rot and content drift are endemic to the web

#33

Post by rchaud »

JKCalhoun wrote: post #15

I expected the article to deal more with the rotting landscape of the internet, the rotting of our choices of content, the poor selection of links on the 1st page of any search engine.... I am less concerned with the fact that a link breaks than I am with what it says about the content that was there, is no longer there.

Links are the backbone of the internet. Archive.org is a huge asset, but it relies on individuals being prescient enough to archive pages that might be lost to time. That's not scalable. Plenty of people will visit Wayback Machine to pull up an old page that's gone to the big 404 in the sky, but they won't actively submit links to archive themselves.

The bad design and low quality content is a symptom of the Internet's broken underlying economics. That's a human problem, not a tech problem.

Re: Link rot and content drift are endemic to the web

#34

Post by ballenf »

kylestlb wrote: post #30

It's an Atlantic article so it's long, and several of the comments here show that people aren't actually reading the whole thing... but I did and it's worth the time. It's not only about links being dead, it's about the lack of transparency & audit when content is changed via takedown requests, it's about dead links showing up in decades-old supreme court decisions, it's about private industry's lack of incentive for…

Maybe the reason it feels impossible to stem the tide of link rot is that it's takes tremendous energy to constantly increase the entropy of a system. And that energy has opportunity cost that no one really wants to talk about.

The article has the unstated assumption that eternal preservation of all writing ever is a net benefit. I think it's worth having a discussion on that point.

Re: Link rot and content drift are endemic to the web

#35

Post by rchaud »

zanderwohl wrote: post #26
AnIdiotOnTheNet wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wish there was something like Reddit that could be organized by topic, but had the simplicity of HN's design instead of the monstrocity Reddit has become. My guess is it would still succumb to the Reddit Hive Mind effect without a reasonably benevolent moderation team though. For all the times I've said that HN basically does the same thing, I have to admit that it is much better about keeping it in check.

Reddit has been pushing to be like other social media sites now. They've added profile pictures and avatars, not to mention they're pushing video content like nothing else. They've got livestreaming and try to saturate your front page with as much video as possible. They've also changed the way their app handles video links to be more like TikTok or YouTube. It used to be a lot like HN - discussions around links to a…

I use third party Reddit apps that largely resemble RSS feeds, and pull directly from the API. So you don't see any of the new social media features. You don't even see ads!

The same is true for desktop, with with the Reddit Enhancement Suite browser extension. My Reddit has looked largely the same for nearly 10 years!

Re: Link rot and content drift are endemic to the web

#36

Post by dkarl »

zanderwohl wrote: post #26
AnIdiotOnTheNet wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wish there was something like Reddit that could be organized by topic, but had the simplicity of HN's design instead of the monstrocity Reddit has become. My guess is it would still succumb to the Reddit Hive Mind effect without a reasonably benevolent moderation team though. For all the times I've said that HN basically does the same thing, I have to admit that it is much better about keeping it in check.

Reddit has been pushing to be like other social media sites now. They've added profile pictures and avatars, not to mention they're pushing video content like nothing else. They've got livestreaming and try to saturate your front page with as much video as possible. They've also changed the way their app handles video links to be more like TikTok or YouTube. It used to be a lot like HN - discussions around links to a…

Some subreddits are decent. Use old reddit and go straight to your subreddits so you never see the home page.

Re: Link rot and content drift are endemic to the web

#37

Post by kylestlb »

ballenf wrote: post #34
kylestlb wrote: post #30

It's an Atlantic article so it's long, and several of the comments here show that people aren't actually reading the whole thing... but I did and it's worth the time. It's not only about links being dead, it's about the lack of transparency & audit when content is changed via takedown requests, it's about dead links showing up in decades-old supreme court decisions, it's about private industry's lack of incentive for…

Maybe the reason it feels impossible to stem the tide of link rot is that it's takes tremendous energy to constantly increase the entropy of a system. And that energy has opportunity cost that no one really wants to talk about. The article has the unstated assumption that eternal preservation of all writing ever is a net benefit. I think it's worth having a discussion on that point.

I disagree that the unstated assumption is eternal preservation of all writing. IMO the author is clearly focusing on official or semi-official published information, not necessarily what you and I write on places like HN.

Re: Link rot and content drift are endemic to the web

#38

Post by api »

AnIdiotOnTheNet wrote: post #9
chovybizzass wrote: post #2

yes. i am down to HN and Reddit. Google calendar and telegram. I don't even know how to find cool stuff online anymore. Google SERPs are all business driven now unless you're research news.

I wish there was something like Reddit that could be organized by topic, but had the simplicity of HN's design instead of the monstrocity Reddit has become. My guess is it would still succumb to the Reddit Hive Mind effect without a reasonably benevolent moderation team though. For all the times I've said that HN basically does the same thing, I have to admit that it is much better about keeping it in check.

Yahoo did this in the 1990s and it was cool for a while, but the net got too big to maintain the directory. There was an open alternative but it got inundated by spam of course.

Re: Link rot and content drift are endemic to the web

#39

Post by nishparadox »

AnIdiotOnTheNet wrote: post #9
chovybizzass wrote: post #2

yes. i am down to HN and Reddit. Google calendar and telegram. I don't even know how to find cool stuff online anymore. Google SERPs are all business driven now unless you're research news.

I wish there was something like Reddit that could be organized by topic, but had the simplicity of HN's design instead of the monstrocity Reddit has become. My guess is it would still succumb to the Reddit Hive Mind effect without a reasonably benevolent moderation team though. For all the times I've said that HN basically does the same thing, I have to admit that it is much better about keeping it in check.

I exactly had the same thought few weeks back on Twitter. Since I have ditched the whole 'social media bubble' for my mental health, it seems sometimes I wish there was some sort of HN-like aggregator for Tweets from my favorite topics and people.

Re: Link rot and content drift are endemic to the web

#40

Post by rchaud »

mycall wrote: post #12
chovybizzass wrote: post #2

yes. i am down to HN and Reddit. Google calendar and telegram. I don't even know how to find cool stuff online anymore. Google SERPs are all business driven now unless you're research news.

Google still works, you just need to be very specific on your search criteria (e.g. site:). I do agree on the premise that good quality data, art and content has been lost to the winds of time.

Needing to use 'site:______.com' in the search query defeats the purpose of an internet search engine.

I agree that it is necessary today, due to the sheer amount of useless sites that pop up on page 1 of the search. I wish Reddit invested more into making their internal site search better. If people did their searches directly on websites, Google would have an incentive to improve search results so it wasn't always the same 10-20 websites topping the list for nearly every query.

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