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OpenStreetMap looks to relocate to EU due to Brexit limitations

theguardian.com

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Re: OpenStreetMap looks to relocate to EU due to Brexit limitations

#31

Post by vidarh »

Bayart wrote: post #28
CodeGlitch wrote: post #10

> The move may still not happen if the foundation can’t find a suitable country to relocate to. Ireland is out, because of a requirement for directors to be residents; France too, because of the difficulty in guaranteeing English-language services. So moving to the EU solves some problems but adds more?

>France too, because of the difficulty in guaranteeing English-language services. As someone who's done English support in France, it sounds like preconceived notions that don't match reality. The tech industry is usually literate in English, even if the rest of the country can't give a care.

My more recent visits to France my problem was rather that people would switch to English too fast for me to get to practice much French.

Very noticeable change vs the first time I visited in the early 90's.

Re: OpenStreetMap looks to relocate to EU due to Brexit limitations

#32

Post by klausjensen »

jeltz wrote: post #20
seszett wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

English is an official language in the EU only in Ireland and Malta though, so if Ireland is out and English is a requirement, it shouldn't be difficult to decide which country to move to.

As someone who has done business on Malta I would not recommend it. Even opening a bank account is a pain on that island. I wouls not want to operate a nob-profit there.

Completely agree. I have run a company in Malta since 2014 and the banking difficulties are non-stop. I would never open a new company there today.

Expect bank accounts in other countries (like Revolut, Transferwise etc) to be closed suddenly because "Malta".

Re: OpenStreetMap looks to relocate to EU due to Brexit limitations

#33

Post by mytailorisrich »

Bayart wrote: post #30
mytailorisrich wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the Kafkaesque french bureaucracy. I think that's key. One really needs an imperative reason to move a business from the UK to France considering how much more business-friendly and, well, sensible, the UK is.

I don't feel France is nearly as business unfriendly as people like to pretend. At least not anymore. It's just an undying trope.

It does not die because there's still truth in it. Bureaucracy is still Kafkaesque for a start. I have been dealing with both British and French administrations extensively and I can tell you it's night and day.

Re: OpenStreetMap looks to relocate to EU due to Brexit limitations

#35

Post by weinzierl »

Markoff wrote: post #21
CodeGlitch wrote: post #10

> The move may still not happen if the foundation can’t find a suitable country to relocate to. Ireland is out, because of a requirement for directors to be residents; France too, because of the difficulty in guaranteeing English-language services. So moving to the EU solves some problems but adds more?

Netherlands or Sweden would be obvious options.

Germany as well. "The Document Foundation" (the foundation behind Libre Office) is living proof that it is doable.

Re: OpenStreetMap looks to relocate to EU due to Brexit limitations

#36

Post by mpweiher »

skywal_l wrote: post #4

It's not really clear to me what the problem is. Doesn't the Open Database License applies everywhere, brexit or not? I never thought that where an "open source" project is physically located as any impact on the license it uses.

For a license to have meaning, the original work needs to be protected, for example by copyright.

If the work isn't protected by copyright, you can still write that license, but you have no means of enforcing said license.

Re: OpenStreetMap looks to relocate to EU due to Brexit limitations

#37

Post by legulere »

kmlx wrote: post #14
mrtksn wrote: post #6

Oh this is about the "Database Rights". In essence, EU, UK and the USA has different opinion on the ownership status and rights of databases. EU: Databases are similar to other copyrightable works, thus you can't simply copy someones database. UK: Like EU but with different flavour. USA: There's no such things as database rights. Apparently, although the positions of UK and EU are similar, since UK is no longer in th…

another fun fact: only the UK, EU and Russia have "database rights". No other country has anything similar. And I'm guessing a good reason why no one else has this has to do with free use and research. Basically, in the EU, UK and Russia I can't even reconstruct your database piece by piece.

It’s because databases don’t fall under copyright in Europe as they only contain facts, if I remember correctly.

Re: OpenStreetMap looks to relocate to EU due to Brexit limitations

#38

Post by majewsky »

weinzierl wrote: post #35
Markoff wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Netherlands or Sweden would be obvious options.

Germany as well. "The Document Foundation" (the foundation behind Libre Office) is living proof that it is doable.

I think in Germany it's more common to incorporate as a registered association (eingetragener Verein, e.V.) for most non-profit activities. For example, the legal entity for the KDE project is KDE e.V.

Admittedly, IANAL, and I don't know much about how foundations (Stiftungen) work in German law, but from experience, e.V. has the advantages of being relatively easy to set up and maintain, being super common so lots of people have experience with it, and having the option of becoming tax-exempt if you put the right weasel words into the statute and file some paperwork with the tax office.

Re: OpenStreetMap looks to relocate to EU due to Brexit limitations

#39

Post by avianlyric »

123pie123 wrote: post #26
bloak wrote: post #2

This is partly about "mutual recognition of database rights": "since Brexit, any database made on or after 1 January 2021 in the UK will not be protected in the EU, and vice versa". It's not something most people need to worry about, but I expect OpenStreetMap won't be the only company affected by that.

>"since Brexit, any database made on or after 1 January 2021 in the UK will not be protected in the EU, and vice versa" I'm not sure I follow, surely the OSM database existed before 1/1/21 thus they have no issues or does it apply to db updates?

The database as it existed before 1/1/21 would be protected. But I suspect any contributions made after that date won’t be.

Re: OpenStreetMap looks to relocate to EU due to Brexit limitations

#40

Post by weinzierl »

majewsky wrote: post #38
weinzierl wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Germany as well. "The Document Foundation" (the foundation behind Libre Office) is living proof that it is doable.

I think in Germany it's more common to incorporate as a registered association (eingetragener Verein, e.V.) for most non-profit activities. For example, the legal entity for the KDE project is KDE e.V. Admittedly, IANAL, and I don't know much about how foundations (Stiftungen) work in German law, but from experience, e.V. has the advantages of being relatively easy to set up and maintain, being super common so lots o…

IANAL as well and what I've heard fits well with what you wrote. I have one anecdote that kind of suits the topic: Florian Effenberger, one of the founders of The Document Foundation" also does Open Source Cooking as a side project. It was set up as an e. V. but not tax exempt. A couple of years ago I've heard Florian say in person that he avoided making it tax exempt because it would be such a hassle. Of course Open Source Cooking is only a small endeavor and that might have played a role in his decision.

I'm not really sure what the overall conclusion is except that choosing a suitable legal structure is not easy.

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