Taiwan is next, in 10 years.
HK media erase their archives amid rising arrests
31–40 of 346 posts
Re: HK media erase their archives amid rising arrests
#32I lived in HK 2018-2020, leaving around the passage of the “national security law”. I think HK is a perfect case study of a line of fallacious thinking popular among westerners: the idea that peaceful protesting or rule-abiding political opposition is generally effective. This is wrong for at least two reasons. The first mistake is failing to recognize that many governments (case in point) are not nearly as vulnerabl…
There is a Cambridge University Press / APSA study about the United States that shows populist swelling or the popular vote rarely results in any legislative change that matches the sentiment, and legislative changes come from well funded special interests that were already there. It is either purely coincidence when those changes match what the protesters want because special interests became interests, or were already interested.
You can see the desperation in trying to find an exception to this, given how much energy would be expended by protestors and those bound by the popular vote, so the we can at least concede - for their sake - that they may have gotten the attention of special interests sometimes, with one influencing the other.
I think the more efficient use of energy would be to identify the most effective special interest groups and capture them.
https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/perspectives-on-poli...
Re: HK media erase their archives amid rising arrests
#33In this article, I was surprised to read that anyone thought "freedom of the press" still existed in HK at all. Once they took the boss of Apple Daily it was pretty clear. HK is governed by one system.
Re: HK media erase their archives amid rising arrests
#34Taiwan is next, in 10 years.
Taiwan was like this 40 years ago.
Re: HK media erase their archives amid rising arrests
#35Earlier quoted context omitted.
Supposedly, there were even handbooks on how to crush these protests. Look at Belarus, Myanmar and Iran. So far the oppressors are winning.
It's almost tautological but "nice" oppressors are not going to win. They will be "taken advantage of" The opposition will duly detect the weakness and attack it. That's just the way it is and these regimes know that. If you're in the oppression business you have to be a bad one. We all wish there weren't oppressive regimes, but there are.
[deleted]
Re: HK media erase their archives amid rising arrests
#36Earlier quoted context omitted.
Maybe a better way would be to stop selling them food. We still want to buy Apple products, but they need to buy food.
Remember during the pandemic when China threatened to stop selling masks, PPE and IVs? Immediately Trump stopped calling it “The China Virus” and then China “donated” millions of masks to the US for the international PR.
we all want to believe that we live in the world which gravitates towards good, rather than some game of thrones. But we all might be suffering from survivor bias. People don't work together well when there are too many of them. I personally won't be surprised if very soon shit finally hits the fan and those who live through it would be happy to merely stay alive
Re: HK media erase their archives amid rising arrests
#37I lived in HK 2018-2020, leaving around the passage of the “national security law”. I think HK is a perfect case study of a line of fallacious thinking popular among westerners: the idea that peaceful protesting or rule-abiding political opposition is generally effective. This is wrong for at least two reasons. The first mistake is failing to recognize that many governments (case in point) are not nearly as vulnerabl…
But violent protests made it worse. The gov removed the extradition law at first but we gave them the opportunity to do worse to restore order and Im forced to back it because I prefer the national security law and some order than no law and no order which it was starting to look like... However you re so very right: protests movements in the west are barely responsible for change. What s responsible for change is sl…
No, the government did not remove the extradition law until September 2019, after proposing it in February 2019.
By then, many Hong Kongers had been protesting, arrested, beaten and worse. The reason we Hong Kongers did not and have not stopped is because there has been no justice for them.
That's the principle behind 5 demands, not 1 less.
Re: HK media erase their archives amid rising arrests
#38The best way to put pressure on the Chinese Communist Party and help pro-democracy voices in Hong Kong (and the reduce Uygher genocide) is to avoid buying Made in China goods where possible. This means buying Western, Korean and Japanese brands that aren't manufactured in China. Eg, a Samsung phone over Apple (made in Vietnam than Made in China), a Western Digital hard drive (made in Thailand) etc. There are an incre…
Maybe a better way would be to stop selling them food. We still want to buy Apple products, but they need to buy food.
I disagree, in that the problem is the Chinese Communist Party, not the Chinese people. It's also contradictory to counter a bully by being a bully.
Having said that: iron ore, not food. As a thought experiment: it would be most effective to target China's main imports: integrated circuits, oil, iron ore, ... [1]
ICs are mainly used in exports so limited domestic impact, oil can be had from any number of despotic partners, iron ore on the other hand...
Most of China's iron ore comes from Australia, and there is currently no alternative. If Australia refused to sell iron ore to China it would really screw up China's economy [2] (and Australia's):
Proof of China's dependence on Australian iron ore is in the current sanctions the CCP is placing on Australia, as payback for Australia not kowtowing to the CCP [3]. The result has been a major loss of face for the CCP, in that it has made Australia's economy more resilient by forcing diversification of its export markets, in the process reducing CCP's influence, simultaneous with Australia's exports to China continuing to break new records [4]. No one is under any illusions that the CCP would dearly like to stop iron ore imports from Australia, but it can't. Eventually the CCP may be able to wean China off Australian iron ore, but chances are it will happen so slowly that Australia will have time to find new markets.
Yes, Australia could screw China, as the CCP is trying to do to Australia, but that would only reduce Australia to the same level as the CCP and ruin Australia's goodwill with the Chinese people (the CCP is not China).
[1] https://www.google.com/search?q=china%27s+biggest+imports
[2] https://www.hellenicshippingnews.com/what-would-happen-if-ch...
[3] https://www.smh.com.au/world/asia/if-you-make-china-the-enem...
[4] https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-01-26/australian-economy-co...
Re: HK media erase their archives amid rising arrests
#39There is an epic tv show to be made about underground freedom fighters in HK and what they do to subvert the gestapo. Just like there is a genre now of how different groups tried to subvert the nazis, it’s pretty clear that China is the modern-day fascist state, where disagreeing with the official party line risks your career and possibly your freedom. The only permitted disagreement is whisper-networks, and the mome…
Disney won’t even make gay characters in their animated films, so they can make lots of China dollars. So good luck finding funding for your TV show to deeply hurt the feelings of the Chinese people.
Re: HK media erase their archives amid rising arrests
#40I lived in HK 2018-2020, leaving around the passage of the “national security law”. I think HK is a perfect case study of a line of fallacious thinking popular among westerners: the idea that peaceful protesting or rule-abiding political opposition is generally effective. This is wrong for at least two reasons. The first mistake is failing to recognize that many governments (case in point) are not nearly as vulnerabl…
But violent protests made it worse. The gov removed the extradition law at first but we gave them the opportunity to do worse to restore order and Im forced to back it because I prefer the national security law and some order than no law and no order which it was starting to look like... However you re so very right: protests movements in the west are barely responsible for change. What s responsible for change is sl…
All forms of government no matter how big or small are fcorrupt. That’s how it works—they/them who bends the will of the masses wins. Either that’s done by manipulating folks into believing the next candidate will “take their pain away”, or by inflicting pain for non-compliance. Or they change the rules: voter suppression, censorship, etc and pretend they “won the election.” Or they just murder the opposition and blame it on Santa Claus.