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Pfizer and Moderna vaccines may produce lasting immunity

nature.com

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Re: Pfizer and Moderna vaccines may produce lasting immunity

#31

Post by CameronNemo »

endisneigh wrote: post #26
xadhominemx wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s hard to reliably verify previous infection and very safe and easy to get vaccinated, so what’s the point? I’m going to check your profile — 90% chance you spread antivax propaganda. Edit: yup. Every time.

I’m not understanding your point - wouldn’t an antibody test or a positive Covid test be easy enough to show? Not sure how that’s any different than showing proof of a Covid vaccine

Yes it would be easy, if we had planned for it ahead of time. Antibodies fade over time, so you can't do an antibody test much later. And neither antibody or viral tests would have been guarded for anti-spoofing or external verification. Some people may have just gotten a text or phone call from their health care provider, or used a self administered test.

Re: Pfizer and Moderna vaccines may produce lasting immunity

#32

Post by raphlinus »

giantg2 wrote: post #23
raphlinus wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's very strong evidence, particularly against the Delta variant[1]. That paper cites a 33.5% effectiveness after one dose, compared to 87.9% after two doses of the Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine. [1]: https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.05.22.21257658v...

That includes the lag time. A single dose is supposed to be about 80% effective once immunity develops. They don't know how long that will last and thus have the second shot to increase effectiveness and hopefully longevity.

It's likely that the 80% figure you mention was based on protection against "ancestral type" virus, as would have been measured in the main trials. The gap between first dose and second dose protection is larger for Delta variant than for other variants, as documented in the paper I cited.

Re: Pfizer and Moderna vaccines may produce lasting immunity

#33

Post by crazygringo »

xadhominemx wrote: post #15
jaywalk wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's time for the naturally immune to be treated the same as those who've been vaccinated. There is absolutely zero scientific evidence to the contrary, and plenty of evidence to support it.

It’s hard to reliably verify previous infection and very safe and easy to get vaccinated, so what’s the point? I’m going to check your profile — 90% chance you spread antivax propaganda. Edit: yup. Every time.

Good antibody tests are extremely (99%) accurate in verifying previous infection, not sure why you're claiming the opposite...?

And while vaccination is safe and easy to get, both me and a lot of my friends were basically as sick as a regular flu for a day or two from it. Some people have no reaction, which is wonderful, but a lot of people need to take a sick day or two, or intentionally get the vaccine on a Friday and lose the weekend.

It's obviously worth it to get the vaccine if you never had COVID, but if we can show that existing antibodies protect you just as well, then it would be a huge improvement for people not to have to suffer through the side effects.

Re: Pfizer and Moderna vaccines may produce lasting immunity

#34

Post by CameronNemo »

wait_a_minute wrote: post #22
xadhominemx wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s hard to reliably verify previous infection and very safe and easy to get vaccinated, so what’s the point? I’m going to check your profile — 90% chance you spread antivax propaganda. Edit: yup. Every time.

It’s not your business to verify anything. It’s up to the individual to do what is best for their own situation. Focus on decisions for your own self and family.

If we all lived on rural properties sure. But we share the space we live in to a high degree. Vaccination status is a matter of collective public health.

Re: Pfizer and Moderna vaccines may produce lasting immunity

#35

Post by xadhominemx »

endisneigh wrote: post #26
xadhominemx wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s hard to reliably verify previous infection and very safe and easy to get vaccinated, so what’s the point? I’m going to check your profile — 90% chance you spread antivax propaganda. Edit: yup. Every time.

I’m not understanding your point - wouldn’t an antibody test or a positive Covid test be easy enough to show? Not sure how that’s any different than showing proof of a Covid vaccine

Studies have shown the common (LFIA) antibody tests administered to most people have specificity <50%

Re: Pfizer and Moderna vaccines may produce lasting immunity

#36

Post by danSimmons44 »

RcouF1uZ4gsC wrote: post #5

The mRNA vaccines have been the silver lining to the whole COVID-19 disaster. They seem “unreasonably effective” against COVID, basically if you had a genie that you could ask to make a vaccine, it would be hard to do much better, other than the requirement for 2 jabs. In addition, the mRNA technology has broad applicability to other issues such as other viruses (such as flu) and even cancer!

Soy boys seem really excited about experimental genetic engineering.

Re: Pfizer and Moderna vaccines may produce lasting immunity

#37

Post by EasyTiger_ »

xadhominemx wrote: post #15
jaywalk wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's time for the naturally immune to be treated the same as those who've been vaccinated. There is absolutely zero scientific evidence to the contrary, and plenty of evidence to support it.

It’s hard to reliably verify previous infection and very safe and easy to get vaccinated, so what’s the point? I’m going to check your profile — 90% chance you spread antivax propaganda. Edit: yup. Every time.

> I’m going to check your profile — 90% chance you spread antivax propaganda.

You’re not on Reddit anymore friend

Re: Pfizer and Moderna vaccines may produce lasting immunity

#38

Post by jaywalk »

fra wrote: post #27
wait_a_minute wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s not your business to verify anything. It’s up to the individual to do what is best for their own situation. Focus on decisions for your own self and family.

Your vaccination status impacts the people around you. There are folks who cannot be vaccinated (or who are not able to develop immunity from the vaccine). It is dangerous for them to be around unvaccinated people. So no, it is not just up to the individual to do what is best for them.

My whole point is that current policies are conflating immunity with vaccination, when the science says that immunity from a past infection is equivalent to immunity from vaccination.

If I can provide a past positive Covid test or a positive antibody test, that is just as good as a record of being vaccinated. There is no scientific evidence to point to for believing otherwise.

Re: Pfizer and Moderna vaccines may produce lasting immunity

#39

Post by armada651 »

dawnerd wrote: post #21
RcouF1uZ4gsC wrote: post #5

The mRNA vaccines have been the silver lining to the whole COVID-19 disaster. They seem “unreasonably effective” against COVID, basically if you had a genie that you could ask to make a vaccine, it would be hard to do much better, other than the requirement for 2 jabs. In addition, the mRNA technology has broad applicability to other issues such as other viruses (such as flu) and even cancer!

Traditional vaccines have also been "unreasonably effective". I'm all for mRNA going forward (I got pfizer myself) but lets not downplay just how effective the "old" tech has been against covid. It's really quite amazing how well we've been able to target it. Now if only we could get more people to accept that the vaccines are safe...

Which old tech vaccines? I haven't seen any attenuated vaccines for covid. Even the viral vector vaccines aren't exactly "old tech" and they are certainly less effective than mRNA vaccines.

Just like with mRNA; viral vector vaccines haven't been seen widespread use before COVID either. And the only attempts at an attenuated vaccine have been pretty ineffective as far as I know.

Re: Pfizer and Moderna vaccines may produce lasting immunity

#40

Post by gjs278 »

beervirus wrote: post #3

We’ll still probably need periodic booster shots to deal with variants as they crop up. Still, very encouraging news if it holds up in practice.

I will not be participating in a system that intentionally gets me sick 1-2 days out of the year to avoid an illness that barely did anything to me in the first place. people who are going to have a bad reaction to covid can get them if they need them. I don’t.
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