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Saudi Operatives Who Killed Khashoggi Received Paramilitary Training in U.S.

nytimes.com

31–40 of 157 posts

Re: Saudi Operatives Who Killed Khashoggi Received Paramilitary Training in U.S.

#31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you go to Washington DC and go to the Watergate Hotel, right across the street and not on Embassy Row is the massive Saudi Embassy, reminding everyone who comes in over Teddy Roosevelt Bridge who runs barter town.

I don't feel like this answers the question. Saudis have outsized influence on the US because they have a large building as their embassy?

No: they do it the old fashioned way: lobbying and political contributions.

Re: Saudi Operatives Who Killed Khashoggi Received Paramilitary Training in U.S.

#32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your picture may be as narrow-minded as the person you're replying to, but in the other direction. The US also uses its economic clout to push for social, political and economic reforms in other countries as well.

The problem is if there is a conflict between economic and and "ethical" interests the economic interest always won (let's not even get into all the political reasons why totalitarian regimes were supported). The US (and much of the west by extension) certainly has a very spotty history of supporting democracy, especially if it was in their economic interest to support the totalitarian regime.

The US supporting democracy (or atleast classical liberal enlightenment values that would eventually lead to a functioning democracy) in Vietnam, Iraq, Korea, Syria, Afghanistan, and more has by far been a net negative economic interest. We've paid dearly while Europe mostly enjoyed social welfare benefits.

Re: Saudi Operatives Who Killed Khashoggi Received Paramilitary Training in U.S.

#33

Why is keeping nice with the Saudi family so important? Why does the US government bend over backwards to cover up for them?

The Saudis are kind of like a Bishop (our chess piece) checking a Knight (Iran) from doing anything too nuts (and once upon of time, Iraq). I’d also say they act a little bit like West Germany as a forward base against the Soviet threat (kind of an old model at this point, Obama mostly wanted to steer our forces east toward China going forward). Israel got hip to this too. The alliance is really Saudi Arabia, America…

The one other comment alluding to the geopolitical concerns that seemed to be missed by many.

Re: Saudi Operatives Who Killed Khashoggi Received Paramilitary Training in U.S.

#34
Does America's ex-military personnel really teach people to dismember bodies?

Is that an actual course, or did foreign psychopaths (albeit with state department approval) get training in actual military stuff (shooting, ironing beds, polishing boots, logistics, etc.) and then go on all by themselves to butcher journalists with a carving knife?

I don't see the link here, other than a bit or outrage and a wee dopamine hit.

Re: Saudi Operatives Who Killed Khashoggi Received Paramilitary Training in U.S.

#35

Why is keeping nice with the Saudi family so important? Why does the US government bend over backwards to cover up for them?

The Saudis are kind of like a Bishop (our chess piece) checking a Knight (Iran) from doing anything too nuts (and once upon of time, Iraq). I’d also say they act a little bit like West Germany as a forward base against the Soviet threat (kind of an old model at this point, Obama mostly wanted to steer our forces east toward China going forward). Israel got hip to this too. The alliance is really Saudi Arabia, America…

The thing is to use the Saudis to keep Iran in check is like using the devil to keep a daemon in check. Iran (as bad it may be) is a much freer society than Saudi Arabia, and support for terrorism can't be an argument either because Saudi Arabia is a primary supporter of Islamic terrorism in the world. Moreover, the demonisation of Iran together with the support for Saudi Arabia has likely strengthened the hardliners in Iran and made the region much less stable.

Re: Saudi Operatives Who Killed Khashoggi Received Paramilitary Training in U.S.

#36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is if there is a conflict between economic and and "ethical" interests the economic interest always won (let's not even get into all the political reasons why totalitarian regimes were supported). The US (and much of the west by extension) certainly has a very spotty history of supporting democracy, especially if it was in their economic interest to support the totalitarian regime.

The US supporting democracy (or atleast classical liberal enlightenment values that would eventually lead to a functioning democracy) in Vietnam, Iraq, Korea, Syria, Afghanistan, and more has by far been a net negative economic interest. We've paid dearly while Europe mostly enjoyed social welfare benefits.

Right. Europe just loves dealing with the millions of refugees that the US-led destabilization and destruction of the middle east caused.

Also I'm not sure what you mean by "social welfare".

Re: Saudi Operatives Who Killed Khashoggi Received Paramilitary Training in U.S.

#37

Does America's ex-military personnel really teach people to dismember bodies? Is that an actual course, or did foreign psychopaths (albeit with state department approval) get training in actual military stuff (shooting, ironing beds, polishing boots, logistics, etc.) and then go on all by themselves to butcher journalists with a carving knife? I don't see the link here, other than a bit or outrage and a wee dopamine…

Maybe not a training in ‘dismembering’ but America has a long experience in using torture and teaching it to allied military/paramilitary groups

Re: Saudi Operatives Who Killed Khashoggi Received Paramilitary Training in U.S.

#38

Why is keeping nice with the Saudi family so important? Why does the US government bend over backwards to cover up for them?

Historically, the least bad option in maintaining supply of the fuel of civilization and countering Iran, Russian, and Chinese influence. Such is geopolitics.

Oil is a fungible market. The Saudis have to sell it to someone, and selling it to someone besides the US just frees up other suppliers to sell to the US.

Re: Saudi Operatives Who Killed Khashoggi Received Paramilitary Training in U.S.

#39

Does America's ex-military personnel really teach people to dismember bodies? Is that an actual course, or did foreign psychopaths (albeit with state department approval) get training in actual military stuff (shooting, ironing beds, polishing boots, logistics, etc.) and then go on all by themselves to butcher journalists with a carving knife? I don't see the link here, other than a bit or outrage and a wee dopamine…

At least in school of Americas, they did

Re: Saudi Operatives Who Killed Khashoggi Received Paramilitary Training in U.S.

#40
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many drug cartels in Mexico get their training from the retired army personnel from Israel, USA. So, what can the USA/Israel do in such a case? Either ban any training given by retired folks; or give fat pensions to such people and make them sign agreements that prevent any private training whatsoever.

Why would the US or Israeli militaries be powerless to say "you can't use your training to help train up cartels and if we find out about it, that's your ass"?

Same reason that Congress has not said to ex-congress members “you can't use your influence to help train up lobbyists and if we find out about it, that's your ass.” That reason would be … money and power for their “retirement” years.
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