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$1 of every $5 in US wallets in 2010 came from programs like unemployment & SS

nytimes.com

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Re: $1 of every $5 in US wallets in 2010 came from programs like unemployment & SS

#31

Post by Eliezer »

adolph wrote: post #7
tjic wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

God forbid anyone reduce a fraction!

The fraction reduction seems inflationary.

This reminds me of that experiment where subjects who got $10 (or something) if they picked a red jellybean, preferred to pick from a bowl containing 7 red jellybeans out of 100 rather than 1 red jellybean out of 10, because they figured there were more red jellybeans in the first one. Some of them said they knew they were being irrational and then picked from the first bowl anyway.

Yes, this is a real experiment.

Apparently the concept of reducing a fraction is as genuinely foreign to Muggles as the concept of "well, if it's irrational maybe I shouldn't do it then".

Re: $1 of every $5 in US wallets in 2010 came from programs like unemployment & SS

#32

Post by chc »

maxharris wrote: post #12
paulpaul12 wrote: post #6

With a growing poor population via the influx of immigrants getting out of our financial crisis will be an even slower process. This population is the 2nd largest and the fastest growing. They currently have minimal buying power. Case in point go to your local state park and witness America's future. The face of America in 30 to 50 years and the language we speak will be remarkably different. Im sure this will be dow…

as a population Racism is a form of collectivism, and that phrase is indisputably collectivist: http://aynrandlexicon.com/lexicon/racism.html I agree that America should be a melting pot once again, but if you're going to champion American culture consistently, you must wipe collectivist ideas from your mind. We are all individuals, independent from one another, and we must be judged and thought of individually. Edit…

I'm not one of the downvoters, but my guess:

1. It's really irrelevant political squabbling. It's annoying, but even worse, that kind of sidetrack can ruin sites by bringing in people who seek nothing more than to argue. I've seen it on other sites. Probably a lot of people want to avoid that kind of slide.

2. Your apparent argument is illogical. "Racism is a form of collectivism, and that phrase is indisputably collectivist [and thus that phrase is probably racist]" reduces to "X is a form of Y, and Z is indisputably Y [and thus Z is probably X]," which can be substituted with "A murderer is a form of human, and you are indisputably human [and thus you are probably a murderer]." And if you didn't mean to imply that the phrase was tinged with racism because it was collectivist, then it's an irrelevant reference to Ayn Rand, and many people find Ayn Rand references annoying enough when they're on topic. It doesn't demonstrate anything either way.

Re: $1 of every $5 in US wallets in 2010 came from programs like unemployment & SS

#33

Post by chc »

william42 wrote: post #26
paulpaul12 wrote: post #6

With a growing poor population via the influx of immigrants getting out of our financial crisis will be an even slower process. This population is the 2nd largest and the fastest growing. They currently have minimal buying power. Case in point go to your local state park and witness America's future. The face of America in 30 to 50 years and the language we speak will be remarkably different. Im sure this will be dow…

Mexican immigrants are likely to be descended from Native Americans to a much greater degree than white Americans.

Unless my education has badly failed me, the Native American cultures don't individually or collectively form much of the basis of US culture. They were here first, but the European Americans did a pretty thorough job of minimizing their influence.

Re: $1 of every $5 in US wallets in 2010 came from programs like unemployment & SS

#34

Post by nostromo »

OstiaAntica wrote: post #27
nostromo wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds like a fine idea to me, but not very stimulative. More money would be returned to high income individuals who are more likely to hold onto the extra cash. I'd personally rather it go to infrastructure projects -- faster cheaper internet access, high speed rail, space elevators ;) -- and basic research.

"hold on to extra cash" is intuitive but it is not how our economy works. Anyone saving money has that money circulated into the economy, through stocks, bonds, or bank lending. In fact, it is the wealthy who have the surplus capital available to invest in ventures like those you mention. It is extremely stimulative.

I guess we should define "stimulative." I was talking about it in a job-creation sense.

Yes, wealthy individuals will put the money into stocks, bonds, or bank accounts - not under the mattress. But public companies' market cap rising a bit has a much less direct effect on jobs than creation of demand for local goods and services. Putting extra cash in a bank account is even worse -- a much simpler way of getting banks to lend is to reduce the prime rate, not to increase the savings rate.

Re: $1 of every $5 in US wallets in 2010 came from programs like unemployment & SS

#35

Post by sliverstorm »

paulpaul12 wrote: post #6

With a growing poor population via the influx of immigrants getting out of our financial crisis will be an even slower process. This population is the 2nd largest and the fastest growing. They currently have minimal buying power. Case in point go to your local state park and witness America's future. The face of America in 30 to 50 years and the language we speak will be remarkably different. Im sure this will be dow…

What do you refer to when you speak of State Parks?

Re: $1 of every $5 in US wallets in 2010 came from programs like unemployment & SS

#36

Post by diogenescynic »

seb wrote: post #20
paulpaul12 wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

ha i dont see the demise of America just a swift cultural change. Again, Im for assimilation not a majority cultural change. As noted I never considered myself to be racist but after going to state parks in and around PA and MD I guess I am in this regards - sad to say. I finally felt what it feels like to be culturally lost and feel like a minority in my own backyard. I challenge anyone reading this that was born he…

Should I apologize in advanced for immigrating to the US next year?

Please don't. We're all immigrants here (other than the Native Americans). People have a selective memory.

Re: $1 of every $5 in US wallets in 2010 came from programs like unemployment & SS

#37

Post by derrickpetzold »

nostromo wrote: post #34
OstiaAntica wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"hold on to extra cash" is intuitive but it is not how our economy works. Anyone saving money has that money circulated into the economy, through stocks, bonds, or bank lending. In fact, it is the wealthy who have the surplus capital available to invest in ventures like those you mention. It is extremely stimulative.

I guess we should define "stimulative." I was talking about it in a job-creation sense. Yes, wealthy individuals will put the money into stocks, bonds, or bank accounts - not under the mattress. But public companies' market cap rising a bit has a much less direct effect on jobs than creation of demand for local goods and services. Putting extra cash in a bank account is even worse -- a much simpler way of getting ban…

Oh my I'm afraid your understanding of economics is very poor. Infrastructure funding can only come from tax money. Tax money can only come from the private sector. The private sector makes by money by using capital (savings). That is how it works. That is why savings are good and taxes are bad.

Re: $1 of every $5 in US wallets in 2010 came from programs like unemployment & SS

#38

Post by Steko »

paulpaul12 wrote: post #19
pyre wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

http://boston.com/bostonglobe/ideas/articles/2007/11/25/the_... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_American_Union

ha i dont see the demise of America just a swift cultural change. Again, Im for assimilation not a majority cultural change. As noted I never considered myself to be racist but after going to state parks in and around PA and MD I guess I am in this regards - sad to say. I finally felt what it feels like to be culturally lost and feel like a minority in my own backyard. I challenge anyone reading this that was born he…

I was born here and go to state parks all the time. Your comments do strike me as racist and xenophobic.

You say they don't offer anything to the economy but they come because people hire them and pay them. They do work that by and large we won't do. We pay them to watch our children, harvest crops, yardwork, day laborer, etc.

They do pay taxes and by some studies pay more then they get in benefits:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_impact_of_illegal_immi... http://reason.org/news/show/122411.html

If you want them to speak English I'd suggest you quit voting for idiots trying to destroy the public education system.

Re: $1 of every $5 in US wallets in 2010 came from programs like unemployment & SS

#39

Post by pyre »

seb wrote: post #20
paulpaul12 wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

ha i dont see the demise of America just a swift cultural change. Again, Im for assimilation not a majority cultural change. As noted I never considered myself to be racist but after going to state parks in and around PA and MD I guess I am in this regards - sad to say. I finally felt what it feels like to be culturally lost and feel like a minority in my own backyard. I challenge anyone reading this that was born he…

Should I apologize in advanced for immigrating to the US next year?

paulpaul12 is having trouble splitting apart the ideas of:

1) cultural change due to changing minority/majority statistics

2) illegal immigration

His/her opinions seem to be largely based on the idea that idea #1 is undesirable, and that idea #2 is what is causing that, therefore idea #2 is 'bad.' The fault in this argument is that idea #1 can come about through other means, such as legal immigration, and applying the same logic would result in the conclusion that legal immigration is bad, which would be a far less popular idea (even amongst the 'kill the illegals' crowd).

The underlying theme here, though is resistance to change.

Re: $1 of every $5 in US wallets in 2010 came from programs like unemployment & SS

#40

Post by Steko »

derrickpetzold wrote: post #37
nostromo wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess we should define "stimulative." I was talking about it in a job-creation sense. Yes, wealthy individuals will put the money into stocks, bonds, or bank accounts - not under the mattress. But public companies' market cap rising a bit has a much less direct effect on jobs than creation of demand for local goods and services. Putting extra cash in a bank account is even worse -- a much simpler way of getting ban…

Oh my I'm afraid your understanding of economics is very poor. Infrastructure funding can only come from tax money. Tax money can only come from the private sector. The private sector makes by money by using capital (savings). That is how it works. That is why savings are good and taxes are bad.

If his understanding of economics is poor, yours is even worse. All he saying is you get a better multiplier by giving it to people who will spend the money first on goods and services then on people who will put it directly into savings. And he's right, which should be obvious.
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