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All Programming Is Web Programming (2009)

blog.codinghorror.com

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Re: All Programming Is Web Programming (2009)

#31

Post by arbol »

ascotan wrote: post #30

There was a time back not so long ago when there was a craze to rewrite every desktop app as a webapp because the web was going to eat everything. It was the hype cycle of web 2.0. Those days are gone imho. Instead it was mobile that ate everything. The OP that Jeff is commenting on isn't wrong. I see it everyday with junior devs that have very little practical experience with real engineering but they know a little…

I remember agreeing with most of this post when I first read it but I don't think we'll see a continuing dumbing down of code. Blockchain, whatever your view on it, is forcing a lot of developers to write low level code with an understanding of garbage collection, abstraction, etc. This is also being felt in data science in which AI models are getting more and more complicated and the only way to scale them is to write lower level code.

Point and click coding will never replace actually typing. Think about how much you can express with your hands versus speech. Unless you're versed in sign language, the gap will be very big.

Re: All Programming Is Web Programming (2009)

#32

Post by bool3max »

dvfjsdhgfv wrote: post #7

It's interesting. 12 years have passed, and I still prefer a native (not Electron) desktop app to its web equivalent for practically any task, from writing code to working with spreadsheets to PCB design. Even for such a basic task like word processing I prefer to use a local program rather than a web app.

Word processing is no simple task.

Re: All Programming Is Web Programming (2009)

#33

Post by juped »

raxxorrax wrote: post #3
WalterGR wrote: post #2

(2009)

I don't mind older content, but I think on this topic it is pretty relevant because 2009 had different requirements for web devs compared to today. I am no web developer either, but know enough that web projects can be as complicated as any other type of software. The basics are also good to know for any programmer, since web interfaces are a common and universal solution.

the year isn't a knock on it for being "old", it's important context

Re: All Programming Is Web Programming (2009)

#35

Post by ttfkam »

danbruc wrote: post #17

The advantage of web applications is that you do not have to install and update them, that they are inherently sandboxed, and that they are not operating system depended. And even those are not universally good things - server down or no internet connection, no application, feature removed in new version, good luck trying to run an old version, and operating system dependencies give way to browser dependencies. And y…

> server down or no internet connection, no application

Service Workers https://developers.google.com/web/fundamentals/primers/servi...

Re: All Programming Is Web Programming (2009)

#36

Post by smitty1e »

0x737368 wrote: post #9
smitty1e wrote: post #6

Not sure about Atwood's Law. JavaScript has pride of place in browsers for now. But as WebAssembly gains traction, I look forward to avoiding the ungainly JS syntax in favor of pretty much anything else.

What's wrong with JS syntax? Seems pretty modern and adequate for what it needs to do

I find in hard to know where things begin and where I am executing in a JS codebase/library.

This may have more to do with the async nature thereof than the syntax specifics.

Re: All Programming Is Web Programming (2009)

#37

Post by unknown_error »

danbruc wrote: post #17

The advantage of web applications is that you do not have to install and update them, that they are inherently sandboxed, and that they are not operating system depended. And even those are not universally good things - server down or no internet connection, no application, feature removed in new version, good luck trying to run an old version, and operating system dependencies give way to browser dependencies. And y…

I was gonna say that this comment seemed like something from a decade ago... before I realized the article itself is from 2009 (12 years!!)

Yes, all of that is true, and arguably none of it matters anymore.

> At some point you browser will just turn into another operating system running on top of your operating system.

That happened long ago, aside from a few specialized apps in mobile stores. The only time people need those is if they want faster repeat functionality that they use often (email, calendar, some stores, etc.). Otherwise, everything from office work to realtime raytraced gaming can happen in a web browser... and that's great, even if the dev experience relatively sucks and the code is messy.

The Web has turned programming from snobby/precise/beautiful/elitist/expensive engineering to arts & crafts and democratized content creation in the process (eh, for better or worse). Nowadays writing a webpage is easier than writing a letter.

Re: All Programming Is Web Programming (2009)

#38

Post by Byamarro »

What's worth nothing, nowadays most of the concepts "that are too hard for web developers" In the quote are already part of frontend programming.

Concurrency - web workers

Compilers - technically you can write compiler, but it's a very specific use case and I think that web is simply not a proper platform for writing them usually

3d - webgl

Class inheritance - classes in js (they're not identical to i.e. Java classes but they provide a very similar abstraction on the first glance)

Abstract classes - Typescript has it

Pass by value vs pass by reference - something that js programmers had to always understand in the past for the sake of handling primitives and objects in js

Garbage collection - weak references in js

Software development methodologies depend highly on team

Re: All Programming Is Web Programming (2009)

#39

Post by dvfjsdhgfv »

bool3max wrote: post #32
dvfjsdhgfv wrote: post #7

It's interesting. 12 years have passed, and I still prefer a native (not Electron) desktop app to its web equivalent for practically any task, from writing code to working with spreadsheets to PCB design. Even for such a basic task like word processing I prefer to use a local program rather than a web app.

Word processing is no simple task.

I agree, that's why I said "basic", not "simple". Basic in the sense that we had them for over half a century and everybody is using them. The amount of thought and engineering needed to build an efficient word processor still amazes me.

Re: All Programming Is Web Programming (2009)

#40

Post by chakkepolja »

Byamarro wrote: post #38

What's worth nothing, nowadays most of the concepts "that are too hard for web developers" In the quote are already part of frontend programming. Concurrency - web workers Compilers - technically you can write compiler, but it's a very specific use case and I think that web is simply not a proper platform for writing them usually 3d - webgl Class inheritance - classes in js (they're not identical to i.e. Java classes…

> Pass by value vs pass by reference - something that js programmers had to always understand in the past for the sake of handling primitives and objects in js.

Noob question. Aren't primitives immutable? Does it need distinguishing between Value & ref types?

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