Australian Federal Police and FBI nab underworld figures using encrypted app • Hacker News Board

Re: Australian Federal Police and FBI nab underworld figures using encrypted app

#31

Post by flashman » Tue, Jun 08, 2021, 6:03 AM UTC

As to how the FBI got access to the messages, Vice says[1] after Vincent Ramos of Phantom Secure was arrested in 2018, a confidential human source offered Anom, which the source was developing, to the FBI (probably in exchange for immunity or a reduced sentence, in my opinion). The source then seeded Anom phones to his existing distributors as a replacement for Phantom Secure phones, and from their they made their way into criminal organisations.

[1] https://www.vice.com/en/article/akgkwj/operation-trojan-shie...

Re: Australian Federal Police and FBI nab underworld figures using encrypted app

#32

Post by cdogl » Tue, Jun 08, 2021, 6:03 AM UTC

cylde_frog wrote: post #16

michaelmrose wrote: post #9

Does anyone find it funny that each criminal group could have been better off relying on a "kid who knows computers" level of expertise and bog standard devices running open source software which at least wouldn't be trivially systematically turned against them all at once quite so easily.

I wonder about this too. What sort of people do international criminal organisations hire to manage their info-sec? A criminal that became a computer expert or a computer expert that became a criminal?

I suspect that people don't fall into such neat categories. You could pose a similar question re: lawyers whose bread and butter is protecting and representing people associated with organised crime (the kind of individuals represented by Maury from The Wire or Neil Mink from The Sopranos). Are they lawyers who developed a slippery version of ethics & morality, or people with loose ethical standards who entered law?

I'd bet good money that the truth is usually quite banal: these individuals make a series of small and highly contingent decisions over time that gradually push them in the direction of criminality or culpability, reinforced over time by social & financial reward for doing so.

Re: Australian Federal Police and FBI nab underworld figures using encrypted app

#33

Post by postingawayonhn » Tue, Jun 08, 2021, 6:04 AM UTC

diamondhandle wrote: post #20

ferros wrote: post #3

Looks like the app’s domain was also seized. https://www.anom.io/

Can someone explain what flag in the top left corner is? There’s probably another non-country flag I missed in there too. https://www.anom.io/trojan_shield_seal.jpg

The Europol logo.

Re: Australian Federal Police and FBI nab underworld figures using encrypted app

#34

Post by PinkPigeon » Tue, Jun 08, 2021, 6:07 AM UTC

31tor wrote: post #11

So the big question is if would have been better to strike fast, silently gain more intel och strike in some kind of statistical analysis maner to not blow their cover á la Alan Turing and the enigma

Random nitpick, but I think it's à la. Do correct me if I'm wrong though.

Re: Australian Federal Police and FBI nab underworld figures using encrypted app

#35

Post by marlor » Tue, Jun 08, 2021, 6:08 AM UTC

iJohnDoe wrote: post #26

senectus1 wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

from what I understand they developed the app themselves... marketed and pushed the app to certain "dark markets" and let them use the apps and devices as if they were secure. they were in fact real time monitoring every transaction. amazing really. and pretty funny if you asked me :-P

Not funny. Pretty much worse fucking case scenario. Imagine Signal, Telegram, or any other app that touts themselves as a secure app is really just the creation of the FBI, NSA, CIA, and NRO. Remember, yesterday’s conspiracy theory is today’s reality.

They covered themselves by ensuring that the devices could only be ordered after private referral from another user. All of whom were underworld figures (the devices were initially “seeded” to “underworld influencers”).

I’m sure that added to the credibility of the device among criminal groups, but it also ensured that the platform wasn’t adopted by your average privacy-conscious user.

Re: Australian Federal Police and FBI nab underworld figures using encrypted app

#36

Post by imhoguy » Tue, Jun 08, 2021, 6:10 AM UTC

bryanrasmussen wrote: post #17

cylde_frog wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder about this too. What sort of people do international criminal organisations hire to manage their info-sec? A criminal that became a computer expert or a computer expert that became a criminal?

Codefellas https://www.wired.com/2003/12/mafia/

Nice! Is there some follow up story after years?

Re: Australian Federal Police and FBI nab underworld figures using encrypted app

#37

Post by RachelF » Tue, Jun 08, 2021, 6:12 AM UTC

flashman wrote: post #31

As to how the FBI got access to the messages, Vice says[1] after Vincent Ramos of Phantom Secure was arrested in 2018, a confidential human source offered Anom, which the source was developing, to the FBI (probably in exchange for immunity or a reduced sentence, in my opinion). The source then seeded Anom phones to his existing distributors as a replacement for Phantom Secure phones, and from their they made their wa…

Makes you wonder how many commercial VPN services are just FBI honeypots?

Re: Australian Federal Police and FBI nab underworld figures using encrypted app

#38

Post by ternaryoperator » Tue, Jun 08, 2021, 6:12 AM UTC

PinkPigeon wrote: post #34

31tor wrote: post #11

So the big question is if would have been better to strike fast, silently gain more intel och strike in some kind of statistical analysis maner to not blow their cover á la Alan Turing and the enigma

Random nitpick, but I think it's à la. Do correct me if I'm wrong though.

it is indeed a grave accent, just as you say

Re: Australian Federal Police and FBI nab underworld figures using encrypted app

#39

Post by [deleted] » Tue, Jun 08, 2021, 6:13 AM UTC

Taniwha wrote: post #6

not just Australia, it's world wide and likely led by the FBI (but possibly data being collected outside the US to avoid the need of having actual warrants) The following thread looks at some of the opened court documents today: https://twitter.com/ericgarland/status/1402100449013125123 (and points out that the Trump organisation might be in trouble ....)

[deleted]

Re: Australian Federal Police and FBI nab underworld figures using encrypted app

#40

Post by liquidify » Tue, Jun 08, 2021, 6:16 AM UTC

cdogl wrote: post #32

cylde_frog wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder about this too. What sort of people do international criminal organisations hire to manage their info-sec? A criminal that became a computer expert or a computer expert that became a criminal?

I suspect that people don't fall into such neat categories. You could pose a similar question re: lawyers whose bread and butter is protecting and representing people associated with organised crime (the kind of individuals represented by Maury from The Wire or Neil Mink from The Sopranos). Are they lawyers who developed a slippery version of ethics & morality, or people with loose ethical standards who entered law?…

What? Representing criminals is not unethical or 'immoral'. Period. Protecting criminals legally is not unethical unless you are knowingly doing something illegal yourself.

I imagine that most layers are just doing their job and getting paid for it. Bringing morality into that equation makes no sense in a legal system that has little to nothing to do with morality.