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3,000 eggs abandoned after drone scares birds in California

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Re: 3,000 eggs abandoned after drone scares birds in California

#31

Post by diggan »

blamazon wrote: post #27
diggan wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I frequently walk my dogs without leash. They follow my command, don't disturb other people or dogs unless both parties engage and generally I don't do anything that someone who has a leash wouldn't be doing. They also walk side-by-side with me when off-leash. This is very common in the city I live and surrounding area (Barcelona, Spain and Catalunya). Both me and others without leashes are indistinctive from people…

> How is it inconsiderate if the dogs themselves are behaving? This is the problem right here. We have no idea whether your dogs are properly trained or not. There is no certification or regulation for having a dog off leash. We have no idea if they’re going to suddenly snap and, in the worst case scenario, viciously attack a baby, something they are biologically quite capable of. It is probably different in collecti…

> We have no idea whether your dogs are properly trained or not

I think the assumption is, at least from mine and others like me, is that if your dog is off-leash, you can handle your dog off-leash. The same if you bring friends to some social event, you wouldn't bring them if you can't handle them and they can behave in public. I'm not afraid they are gonna attack me, although sometimes humans do attack other humans, most of them are fine so no need to worry in general.

> but where I’m from we have a scourge of ignorant owners who are not in control of their dogs. They ruin it for everybody.

Yes, I agree, it's terrible when owners have no control over their dogs. But that's not relevant to the leash itself, that's relevant to the expertise of the owner. Dogs on leashes misbehave as well, and can easily (if wanted and the owner is a terrible one) unleash themselves by either raw power or the owner not paying attention.

Re: 3,000 eggs abandoned after drone scares birds in California

#32

Post by [deleted] »

diggan wrote: post #25
fnord77 wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

people with dogs off-leash are extremely inconsiderate. they're also the type to get hostile and even violent if you say anything

I frequently walk my dogs without leash. They follow my command, don't disturb other people or dogs unless both parties engage and generally I don't do anything that someone who has a leash wouldn't be doing. They also walk side-by-side with me when off-leash. This is very common in the city I live and surrounding area (Barcelona, Spain and Catalunya). Both me and others without leashes are indistinctive from people…

[deleted]

Re: 3,000 eggs abandoned after drone scares birds in California

#33

Post by patcon »

diggan wrote: post #25
fnord77 wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

people with dogs off-leash are extremely inconsiderate. they're also the type to get hostile and even violent if you say anything

I frequently walk my dogs without leash. They follow my command, don't disturb other people or dogs unless both parties engage and generally I don't do anything that someone who has a leash wouldn't be doing. They also walk side-by-side with me when off-leash. This is very common in the city I live and surrounding area (Barcelona, Spain and Catalunya). Both me and others without leashes are indistinctive from people…

Laws are about enforceability, not individual outcomes.

Your doing what you're doing stabilizes a culture where there can be no consequences for anyone in this domain, because there's no clear line of enforcement. What's a low-wage enforcement officer expected to do in this context you advocate, where people "mind their own dog's abilities" and only get fined when some clear violation occurs? Are they supposed to fine people only when they see dogs chasing birds, or scarring a fearful child, or jumping up on an elderly person, or any number of other things with unclear lines? No, you just outlaw dogs off-leash, and allow the $20/h enforcement officer to clearly execute their pro-social task. The anti-social behavior get fined.

Re: 3,000 eggs abandoned after drone scares birds in California

#34

Post by dnh44 »

diggan wrote: post #25
fnord77 wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

people with dogs off-leash are extremely inconsiderate. they're also the type to get hostile and even violent if you say anything

I frequently walk my dogs without leash. They follow my command, don't disturb other people or dogs unless both parties engage and generally I don't do anything that someone who has a leash wouldn't be doing. They also walk side-by-side with me when off-leash. This is very common in the city I live and surrounding area (Barcelona, Spain and Catalunya). Both me and others without leashes are indistinctive from people…

Walking dogs off lead is totally normal in the UK as well.

Re: 3,000 eggs abandoned after drone scares birds in California

#35

Post by wheels »

diggan wrote: post #25
fnord77 wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

people with dogs off-leash are extremely inconsiderate. they're also the type to get hostile and even violent if you say anything

I frequently walk my dogs without leash. They follow my command, don't disturb other people or dogs unless both parties engage and generally I don't do anything that someone who has a leash wouldn't be doing. They also walk side-by-side with me when off-leash. This is very common in the city I live and surrounding area (Barcelona, Spain and Catalunya). Both me and others without leashes are indistinctive from people…

Three things:

- Laws are virtually never there to regulate the median case. They're there to reduce the risk of harm. The reason we don't let people have automatic weapons isn't because most people would go on a killing spree if they had one, it's that a tiny minority would, and that would be disastrous.

- It's literally only been just yesterday that I watched someone's "well behaved" dog attack my friend's dog on a leash. He had to pull the (probably 3x larger) dog off of his. My brother had stitches on his face from being bitten as a kid by someone's "well behaved" dog. I have zero faith in dog owners' ability to self-regulate.

- I'm sure you have the one dog in the world that doesn't chase birds. Most dogs do. This is specifically about that case.

Re: 3,000 eggs abandoned after drone scares birds in California

#36

Post by admax88q »

patcon wrote: post #33
diggan wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I frequently walk my dogs without leash. They follow my command, don't disturb other people or dogs unless both parties engage and generally I don't do anything that someone who has a leash wouldn't be doing. They also walk side-by-side with me when off-leash. This is very common in the city I live and surrounding area (Barcelona, Spain and Catalunya). Both me and others without leashes are indistinctive from people…

Laws are about enforceability, not individual outcomes. Your doing what you're doing stabilizes a culture where there can be no consequences for anyone in this domain, because there's no clear line of enforcement. What's a low-wage enforcement officer expected to do in this context you advocate, where people "mind their own dog's abilities" and only get fined when some clear violation occurs? Are they supposed to fin…

So basically the parties that are actually the problem are too hard to find, so we target everyone who fits into a similar category.

Re: 3,000 eggs abandoned after drone scares birds in California

#37

Post by spicyramen »

diggan wrote: post #25
fnord77 wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

people with dogs off-leash are extremely inconsiderate. they're also the type to get hostile and even violent if you say anything

I frequently walk my dogs without leash. They follow my command, don't disturb other people or dogs unless both parties engage and generally I don't do anything that someone who has a leash wouldn't be doing. They also walk side-by-side with me when off-leash. This is very common in the city I live and surrounding area (Barcelona, Spain and Catalunya). Both me and others without leashes are indistinctive from people…

I have a toddler and I absolutely hate people doing this. I don't know you nor your dog. Sometimes I go to the park and people assume we can read minds and let stranger dogs come close to us. Please leash your dog

Re: 3,000 eggs abandoned after drone scares birds in California

#38

Post by smcl »

diggan wrote: post #25
fnord77 wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

people with dogs off-leash are extremely inconsiderate. they're also the type to get hostile and even violent if you say anything

I frequently walk my dogs without leash. They follow my command, don't disturb other people or dogs unless both parties engage and generally I don't do anything that someone who has a leash wouldn't be doing. They also walk side-by-side with me when off-leash. This is very common in the city I live and surrounding area (Barcelona, Spain and Catalunya). Both me and others without leashes are indistinctive from people…

Strange you're getting so downvoted. While I am a dog owner (and therefore may have a bias) I don't think you've said anything wrong or even controversial. I've seen a lot of US-based people who cannot fathom the idea of a well-behaved dog being completely fine off-leash, so maybe this is why?

I must say that in this sort of situation - an area near a nesting site - I absolutely agree a dog shouldn't be free to run around. But I imagine there are signs specifically warning people against doing that. There are areas here where I have to do the same, for example near areas where people hunt deer (a lot nearby) or where there are bears (only seen warnings in Slovakia). But outside of those areas, with an conscientious owner and an attentive, trained dog who listens to their owner - there's no reason not to unless it's someone who hasn't bothered training their dog.

Re: 3,000 eggs abandoned after drone scares birds in California

#39

Post by stephenhuey »

diggan wrote: post #25
fnord77 wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

people with dogs off-leash are extremely inconsiderate. they're also the type to get hostile and even violent if you say anything

I frequently walk my dogs without leash. They follow my command, don't disturb other people or dogs unless both parties engage and generally I don't do anything that someone who has a leash wouldn't be doing. They also walk side-by-side with me when off-leash. This is very common in the city I live and surrounding area (Barcelona, Spain and Catalunya). Both me and others without leashes are indistinctive from people…

You’re in the minority - too many dog owners think their dogs are fine and when their dog runs dozens of yards away from their master to bound up to us th egg cheerfully call out, “It’s a friendly dog!” Then they go on their merry way and I have to attend to my 2 crying toddlers. Maybe they only kicked my kids’ faces but sometimes they knock them down. I grew up with dogs in the 20th century - mine could obey and do tricks but I still didn’t make assumptions and grabbed them if we were in a situation like that. I don’t live out in the middle of nowhere - we’re in one of the largest cities in the USA and it’s illegal but dog owners think it’s a suggestion the way speeders on the road often do!

Re: 3,000 eggs abandoned after drone scares birds in California

#40

Post by randompwd »

asimpletune wrote: post #28
diggan wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I frequently walk my dogs without leash. They follow my command, don't disturb other people or dogs unless both parties engage and generally I don't do anything that someone who has a leash wouldn't be doing. They also walk side-by-side with me when off-leash. This is very common in the city I live and surrounding area (Barcelona, Spain and Catalunya). Both me and others without leashes are indistinctive from people…

Do we just downvote people now who contradict the majority’s opinion? As far as I can say this adds to the discussion. Someone literally said people who don’t have their dogs on leashes are prone to violent confrontations. Then someone else retorted this is not the case for them and asked for elaboration to better understand their interlocutor’s point of view. We should not be abusing downvote privilegies by discoura…

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