Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

The Ransomware Problem Is a Bitcoin Problem

lawfareblog.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

31–40 of 183 posts

Re: The Ransomware Problem Is a Bitcoin Problem

#31

Post by saurik »

SavantIdiot wrote: post #3

I'd like to hear how cryptocurrency advocates address this without deploying a fallacy. Cryptocurrency makes ransomware possible, without the former, the latter cannot thrive. The defenses I usually hear come in the form of "current banking facilitates bad stuff, too," which is a fact, but doesn't absolve cryptocurrencies central role in ransomware. As the article states, there is simply no way to pay a ransom withou…

""" While we're at it, maybe those same people can defend the Internet, right? Clearly, this experiment in anyone in the world being able to nigh unto anonymously communicate with anyone else was a mistake... at best, every packet should be tracked back to some regulated endpoint that can be tracked in the real world.

The Internet, after all, makes the dark web--and its myriad crimes, including ransomware, drug trafficking, and illegal porn--possible: without the former, the latter cannot thrive. The defenses we usually hear come in the form "prior telephone and postal systems facilitated bad stuff, too," which is a fact, but one that doesn't absolute the Internet, either. :/ """

^ What you sound like to me.

Like, I honestly just don't understand your point: these currencies (minus Bitcoin, due to proof of work being a bit ridiculous) seem like a very useful tool that you couldn't really ban anyway without taking ridiculously draconian measures (a la China and the open Internet, which is only barely working for them anyway) as--and this is kind of the whole point--there isn't any central actor running or maintaining it.

Re: The Ransomware Problem Is a Bitcoin Problem

#32

Post by swiley »

SavantIdiot wrote: post #3

I'd like to hear how cryptocurrency advocates address this without deploying a fallacy. Cryptocurrency makes ransomware possible, without the former, the latter cannot thrive. The defenses I usually hear come in the form of "current banking facilitates bad stuff, too," which is a fact, but doesn't absolve cryptocurrencies central role in ransomware. As the article states, there is simply no way to pay a ransom withou…

Ransomware existed before cryptocurrency and cryptocurrency was popular to the degree that it was widely abused before ransomware became a serious issue. They're related but probably not to the degree you think.

Re: The Ransomware Problem Is a Bitcoin Problem

#34

Post by lancemurdock »

SavantIdiot wrote: post #3

I'd like to hear how cryptocurrency advocates address this without deploying a fallacy. Cryptocurrency makes ransomware possible, without the former, the latter cannot thrive. The defenses I usually hear come in the form of "current banking facilitates bad stuff, too," which is a fact, but doesn't absolve cryptocurrencies central role in ransomware. As the article states, there is simply no way to pay a ransom withou…

car accidents account for 38K deaths a year in the US alone. If we ban cars, we'd be saving 38K lives every year. Why do people continue driving knowing this statistic?

The conversations around ransomware and climate are both slippery slopes. We should be focused on better security to prevent attacks as well as facilitating more renewable energy instead of stifling innovation.

Re: The Ransomware Problem Is a Bitcoin Problem

#35

Post by emodendroket »

saurik wrote: post #31
SavantIdiot wrote: post #3

I'd like to hear how cryptocurrency advocates address this without deploying a fallacy. Cryptocurrency makes ransomware possible, without the former, the latter cannot thrive. The defenses I usually hear come in the form of "current banking facilitates bad stuff, too," which is a fact, but doesn't absolve cryptocurrencies central role in ransomware. As the article states, there is simply no way to pay a ransom withou…

""" While we're at it, maybe those same people can defend the Internet, right? Clearly, this experiment in anyone in the world being able to nigh unto anonymously communicate with anyone else was a mistake... at best, every packet should be tracked back to some regulated endpoint that can be tracked in the real world. The Internet, after all, makes the dark web--and its myriad crimes, including ransomware, drug traff…

The obvious difference to me is that the Internet has a lot of benefits outweighing the negatives beyond just enabling people to do speculation.

Re: The Ransomware Problem Is a Bitcoin Problem

#36

Post by tptacek »

beaner wrote: post #29
tptacek wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As the article points out, it's the only way to reliably transfer the 7 figure sums that make large-scale ransomware attacks workable.

Maybe the problem is the internet. Without that, critical infrastructure would not be susceptible to cyberattack.

We successfully attacked critical infrastructure before it was connected to the Internet, so perhaps the problem is simply telecommunications. I think it's cryptocurrency, though.

Re: The Ransomware Problem Is a Bitcoin Problem

#38

Post by matoro »

okareaman wrote: post #9
arberx wrote: post #2

"This means that cryptocurrencies are the only tool left for ransomware purveyors. So, if governments take meaningful action against Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies, they should be able to disrupt this new ransomware plague and then eradicate it, as was seen with the spam Viagra industry." This is the totally incorrect approach. Imagine banning Polaroids because they led to an explosive growth in underage pornogra…

While I mostly agree with you about cryptocurrencies, the idea that companies don't invest in security is a lazy argument. It's not that simple. Companies can't secure themselves against bugs in software that no one knows about (zero days) no matter how much they invest.

While this is true, the overwhelming majority of these incidents do not use or require zero-days. The attack vector is nearly always basic phishing/social engineering, or wildly misconfigured/unpatched systems exposed to the internet. Implementing a bare-bones security program, or giving an existing security program the tools & authority to enforce policies, would cut down on ransomware incidents by a factor of 5-10, easily, without touching cryptocurrency in the slightest.

Re: The Ransomware Problem Is a Bitcoin Problem

#39

Post by verdverm »

fighterpilot wrote: post #30
mediaman wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can make it illegal to transact crypto. That would devastate the price and ruin it as a currency. The network would still exist, but it'd be useless as a medium for criminal payments due to the low value.

Low value won't change its criminal utility. A criminal looking for a $50k ransomware payment doesn't care if the market cap is $50M or $50B. Outlawing it will make a difference though since it'll make it less likely that victims will pay, meaning the endeavor has a lower success rate.

Indeed, and since attackers are now on notice from the US Govt, they might reconsider these types of attacks

Re: The Ransomware Problem Is a Bitcoin Problem

#40

Post by blhack »

I think that what you're seeing is HNers, and techies in general not really understanding that there is a world that exists well outside of their bubble of technology.

Bitcoin did not create the concept of ransom. It didn't even create the concept of ransom as a business model for organized crime.

See for instance our neighbor to the south: https://www.vox.com/2018/5/11/17276638/mexico-kidnappings-cr...

This is such a common thing, that it has been the central plot of several hollywood movies.

There are even insurance policies that you can get for it: https://www.mexipass.com/mexico-commercial-insurance/special...

This is also common in the shipping industry: https://www.reuters.com/article/somalia-piracy/somali-pirate...

And that type of ransoming has had hollywood movies made about it.

And again that type of ransoming is common enough to have its own insurance: https://www.marineinsight.com/marine-piracy-marine/marine-in...

Should we ban shipping? Or ban the internet?

Probably not.

Post reply on HN