Why we should end the data economy • Hacker News Board

Re: Why we should end the data economy

#31

Post by omgJustTest » Fri, Jun 04, 2021, 5:02 PM UTC

anm89 wrote: post #2

Explaining to people what they should do regarding matters that there are no ways to achieve the stated goals is the laziest, lowest value category of journalism. It's a plague.

Just because something is impractical or a solution is unknown doesn't make it valueless.

There are possible truths that exist in mainstream math formalisms[1]... for which the formalism says there may be no proof of. Just because the formalism can't explain everything doesn't mean we should throw it out!

I view communications like this as: a. making ppl aware (who may not be technical) b. doing the work that may not be worth $$$ c. avoiding future coordination failures of society

All of these in a hyper-optimized and hyper-educated societies may seem inefficient, but in a non-optimized and not highly educated world we live in they are the difference between chaos and not.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G%C3%B6del%27s_incompleteness_...

Re: Why we should end the data economy

#32

Post by saddlerustle » Fri, Jun 04, 2021, 5:06 PM UTC

rhacker wrote: post #10

We need to go back to the TV model. I mean we sold things back in 1995 right? You go to a website about babies, you get baby ads. You go to a website about electrified fences, you get ads for trucks, tractors, backhoe rentals (even in your area because of your IP address - but that's it) It's damn near equivalent to local / cable TV.

The direct mail advertising industry was thriving in 1995. You could buy datasets of people by income, car ownership, shopping habits, etc even easier than you can now.

Re: Why we should end the data economy

#33

Post by pascalxus » Fri, Jun 04, 2021, 5:09 PM UTC

The article implies a lot of risk for having so much personal data circulating around without our control. but the article, and many others like it fail to show how all that risk can adversely affect us.

I mean, so what if my neighbor gets a different ad than I did? maybe he's into red shirts and I like blue shirts. so what if he got a cheaper plane ticket advertisement? I'm not going to buy a ticket unless it's cheap enough to do so. so what if i didn't get an advertisment for a college degree, it's not going to impact whether or not I'm going back to school, etc. so what if an ad uses emotional language specifically targetted towards my political demographic, it's not going to make a difference to me after I investigate the matter objectively.

Re: Why we should end the data economy

#34

Post by jeffbee » Fri, Jun 04, 2021, 5:09 PM UTC

djoldman wrote: post #19

Anyone know of a confirmed instance of: > They generate profits by ... selling [your personal information] to ... prospective employers ... ? This one seems unlikely but who knows.

There certainly are firms that will sell a dossier on you employers or anyone else who wants it, it's just not any of the players mentioned in the article. That's why I hate these articles filled with non sequitur fuzzy thinking. If you want to end the data economy you need to start with the real players: telcos, payment processing networks, ISPs, insurance companies, credit bureaus.

Re: Why we should end the data economy

#35

Post by ianai » Fri, Jun 04, 2021, 5:10 PM UTC

Impassionata wrote: post #18

anm89 wrote: post #2

Explaining to people what they should do regarding matters that there are no ways to achieve the stated goals is the laziest, lowest value category of journalism. It's a plague.

There's a way to achieve the stated goals: have the government come down real hard both on the low-level data crime and the big players that are supposedly legit. Burn it all down.

I sense this would have been in the Bill of Rights had the notion been around back then. They knew the government needed to protect property rights as a fundamental principle and that is written throughout the legal code and constitution. So endowing citizens with ownership of the date of where they are, what they’re doing, and how they use sites seem like extensions of the personal property right. In a sane universe, there might only need to be a Supreme Court judgement somehow establishing this from the current legalization, for that matter.

Re: Why we should end the data economy

#36

Post by bobthechef » Fri, Jun 04, 2021, 5:10 PM UTC

Impassionata wrote: post #18

anm89 wrote: post #2

Explaining to people what they should do regarding matters that there are no ways to achieve the stated goals is the laziest, lowest value category of journalism. It's a plague.

There's a way to achieve the stated goals: have the government come down real hard both on the low-level data crime and the big players that are supposedly legit. Burn it all down.

That's how we got here. Revolution.

Re: Why we should end the data economy

#37

Post by anigbrowl » Fri, Jun 04, 2021, 5:10 PM UTC

anm89 wrote: post #5

jtdev wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Uhhh, you can stop using said services and software that abuse privacy, e.g., Facebook, Google, Twitter, TicToc, etc.

That doesn't end the data economy. It sort of ends part of your personal interaction with the data economy.

'sort of' doing a great deal of work here.

Re: Why we should end the data economy

#38

Post by NoGravitas » Fri, Jun 04, 2021, 5:12 PM UTC

bpodgursky wrote: post #21

Impassionata wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a way to achieve the stated goals: have the government come down real hard both on the low-level data crime and the big players that are supposedly legit. Burn it all down.

"Burn it all down" as a solution — inevitably applied to cultures, systems or industries viewed from the outside — is also a plague of laziness.

The urge to destroy is also a creative urge.

Re: Why we should end the data economy

#39

Post by metalliqaz » Fri, Jun 04, 2021, 5:12 PM UTC

djoldman wrote: post #30

metalliqaz wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's indirect. Employers use one of many firms that do background checks, and those firms pay for access to the data.

If you're a background check company, it seems like a dangerous game to attempt to systematically match data from such unofficial sources to potential employees. Aren't they opening themselves up to lawsuits if they match the wrong person to the wrong potential employee? Additionally, isn't it illegal to decide to hire/not-hire based on a bunch of protected traits? (age, sex, orientation, religion, etc.) It seems lik…

have you ever dealt with background checks? they don't care

Re: Why we should end the data economy

#40

Post by ram_rar » Fri, Jun 04, 2021, 5:14 PM UTC

Similar to KYC (Know your customer) [1] in financial services industry. We need Know your Data Broker for customers, where in customers can know which data brokers have used their information. Most of the data brokers run in the dark and very few outside of tech are aware of it. Data Brokers should allows customers to be opted out and purge information from their systems if needed.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Know_your_customer