Live data from Hacker News

Major ISPs agree to "six strikes" copyright enforcement plan

arstechnica.com

31–40 of 45 posts

Re: Major ISPs agree to "six strikes" copyright enforcement plan

#31
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm considering purchasing Comcast internet for businesses (not the residential stuff), and am interested in your comments about bad routing and peering. Can you expand on that, please? EDIT: I'm talking about Chicagoland region. Didn't know it was geographic.

An example: if you are in Salt Lake City, your traffic to the west coast (i.e. California and Washington) is first routed to Dallas, TX, then across New Mexico and Arizona on a saturated link that limits you to a few mbits/s.

I am in Seattle. To get to my work VPN, also in Seattle, my traffic is routed through San Jose because Comcast refuse to peer with my employer's provider.

Re: Major ISPs agree to "six strikes" copyright enforcement plan

#32
So who will guard the guards? I fail to see any oversight whatsoever. Ohh and look who these 6 major ISPs are. TimeWarner Cable sounds like they may have a few copyrights laying around... Major conflicts of interest? You bet.

And what does this mean for the thousands of coffee shops, book stores, and other wi-fi hotspots which dynamically assign ip addresses? Most likely: nothing pleasant.

Its a fine day when not only do corporations wield ridiculous power of lawmakers, but can form agreements tantamount to monopoly power. Net neutrality? Good luck with that.

Re: Major ISPs agree to "six strikes" copyright enforcement plan

#35
post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed. Does a penalty for filing a false notice (accusation) of infringement exist? What's the process for adjudicating disputes?

I don't think there's any penalty for false accusations of copyright infringement. Likewise, nobody needs to pay for falsely accusing you of anything unless you sue them for defamation. If your ISP actually cuts off your internet after 6 false accusations, you might want to take them to the courts. EFF will probably love to take on such a suit. Unfortunately, very few people have the financial means or guts to sue th…

I think judges can order the accuser to pay the legal fees of the accused at least.

Re: Major ISPs agree to "six strikes" copyright enforcement plan

#36
post #27

This is a very sad state of affairs. We already have a system for judging evidence, determining guilt and for assigning punishment, it's called the courts. This seems to be yet another advancement in abandoning all of the institutions of civil society and rule of law in the online world, frequently to the detriment of individual liberty. We can only hope that eventually these assaults against our freedoms will eventu…

These courts have already been very effectively used... as a threat by copyright holders in an attempt to shake people down for out-of-court settlements.

The tide seems to be turning against the RIAA/MPAA, damages 100s of times the cost of legitimately downloading the song are being questioned, the ruling that an IP address != a person and other stuff that is making it less likely that the copyright groups will be able to mass litigate going forward so they are starting to look for extrajudicial means.

The scariest thing to me about this article is this: This is basically a system of penalty, based on enforcing the government's laws (even though lobbied for by the RIAA et al), that is not dealt with in courts. In the US at least we have the idea that our judges/juries are either our peers or are elected by our peers. There is a sense that they act on behalf of the collective will in transparent ways and are always accountable in some sort of way. It's a way for the community to enforce its norms on its members (for better or worse).

In the system propsed in this article there are consequences to the file sharers. And there is no accountable system for doling out these consequences. These are not our peers judging us. These are corporations who have very vested interests, which are not the interests of the populous it is enforcing them upon. I'm worried that this will become something of a precedent.

I think another really good example of this in action is the Visa/Mastercard embargo on Wikileaks. Operating outside of any judicial framework they barred funds to Wikileaks and its host for months. Then as soon as they get sued, and there is the prospect of having to account for their actions based on real laws they cave in, implicitly acknowledging the illegality of their stance. It seems that however powerful this government/corporation blanket of control thinks it is it still fears having to account for itself in the courts. An independent judiciary is a great check to power. The RIAA/MPAA are attacking one of the few checks on power that still give me hope that the idea of government the USA stands for can be salvaged.

Re: Major ISPs agree to "six strikes" copyright enforcement plan

#37
post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> internet access as a Constitutional right. You mean Human Right.

In the case of individual countries, it's often construed as a constitutional right. But in the case of the EU, you're right, it's a human right. Thanks for the correction.

It hasn't prevented the advancement of internet three strike laws in Europe. In fact they are way ahead of the US on that lousy path. Ireland, UK, France, etc...

http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2009/09/france-passe...

http://www.techradar.com/news/internet/-three-strikes-isp-di...

http://extratorrent.com/article/1124/uk+admitted+%E2%80%9Cth...

Re: Major ISPs agree to "six strikes" copyright enforcement plan

#38

So who will guard the guards? I fail to see any oversight whatsoever. Ohh and look who these 6 major ISPs are. TimeWarner Cable sounds like they may have a few copyrights laying around... Major conflicts of interest? You bet. And what does this mean for the thousands of coffee shops, book stores, and other wi-fi hotspots which dynamically assign ip addresses? Most likely: nothing pleasant. Its a fine day when not onl…

Case in point: In some European countries (e.g. Germany), a wifi provider is liable for all the stuff that happens on his network. Which means that there are next to no public wifis. A shame, really.

Another step from democracy towards corporate dictatorship. Sometimes I wonder if we are currently experiencing a fatal flaw in commercialism that will ultimately subvert democracy.

Re: Major ISPs agree to "six strikes" copyright enforcement plan

#39

Given that these ISPs often have exclusive markets, in which they have no direct competitors, this would effectively deny internet access to anyone who had the misfortune of getting a few of these notices. Lack of judicial oversight is obviously a problem. But furthermore, this really overstates the seriousness of copyright infringement, and understates the importance of internet access for all.

Apart from this, and quoting the Ars Technica article, it's a prime example of "guilty until proven innocent" and a really sneaky tactic by the government to go around the political / democratic process and form "voluntary agreements" with ISP's and media companies.
Post reply on HN