Live data from Hacker News

Manufacturing the Librem 5 USA Phone in the US

puri.sm

31–40 of 148 posts

Re: Manufacturing the Librem 5 USA Phone in the US

#31
post #5

$800 (down from $900) for the Librem 5; $2000 for the Librem 5 USA edition. (Edit: I'm leaving this paragraph here as it attracted comments that would no longer make sense if I edited/removed, but it was a result of a flawed premise [bad math in my head]) That seems a significant premium over the actual cost differential, but they self-admit "this is for customers who have hard requirements on sourcing" rather than "…

This multiplier (800x2.5) seems much lower than I'd expect. For prototype quantities (<100), I have consistently seen a multiplier of 8 or so, for the exact same spec (and verified within-spec after receiving the parts).

Your multiplier looks about right if you compare the Librem USA Phone with a PinePhone.

The $800 price point is already inflated so that it can be made in the US.

Re: Manufacturing the Librem 5 USA Phone in the US

#32
post #23

Yeah it’s 2021 and Chinese manufactured are more reliable and higher quality than anything American made. As an anecdote I build PCBs for a hobby and I’ve purchased PCBs and chips from both cheap Chinese fabs and suppliers as well as Americans ones. The only issues I’ve ever had were with American ones (which were many times more expensive) and I’ve stopped using them completely. I would be curious if librem will eve…

It crushed me last year when we ordered extrusion/machine work samples (a lot of 10 pieces) from a major American brand and some from "Ricky" a Chinese machine shop connect one of the guys here heard of through doing other parts sourcing in China.

The Chinese ones were better machined, had no issues, and were 1/3 the price. I weep for American manufacturing.

Re: Manufacturing the Librem 5 USA Phone in the US

#33
post #13
post #4

I applaud this accomplishment. I think there will be a push to manufacture more semiconductor-intensive products in the US over the next several years as tensions with China continue to heat up and Taiwan is left as a single point of failure. I know progress is already being made with TSMC building new fabs in the US. I will note that Purism do not say what their production capacity is, and that it would probably be…

There is also debate on if the US should invest in that. Political tensions with China are one factor. However remember there are limited resources so investing in this means something else can't be invested in. Really this should be a world wide concern: if China is so bad how can we build up someone more friendly - it need not be the US. Could be Germany, could be Kenya (I understand China is investing there)

I agree, but part of the problem with manufacturing in China is that American companies have become complicit in the abuses of a brutal authoritarian regime. The manufacturing efficiencies cannot be ignored, but it would be wise to take this into consideration as well moving forward. I’m just not sure if there’s a reasonable way to do so. This may be an inevitable consequence of globalization in the short-term.

Re: Manufacturing the Librem 5 USA Phone in the US

#34
As a small US contract manufacturer working largely in Opensource Hardware I applaud their efforts. It is a step forward...even if it costs more.

There are many people in the US who would pay more for a phone made in the US. It isn't just military/govt. Although, they are not the majority.

I got into electronics in the mid/late 90s when there was still a lot of development and production in my area. I watched it largely move out of country and quite a few mid/high paying jobs largely disappear.

It still costs quite a bit more to have boards made in the US (unless you get your own equipment) but with the tariffs, shipping and possibility of further issues between our governments it starts to become fairly close to being worth the effort, at least for some things. It would just take one or two lot rejections or a batch lost in shipping to make it not worthwhile for a mid sized producer. Large companies can absorb and plan in advance...small companies the loss may not be sizable...but the mid size company very well may have most of their eggs in the same basket so to speak.

I have had fairly good results with our Chinese manufacturer over the last 8 years or so but doing our own in house QA/Test is absolutely required. There has been very few batches where we could have got away with not doing so.

In our case we are doing small batch production in house while doing larger batches from China but since we have the machines in house and we can order parts from anywhere there is very little reason to not do our own in house production entirely. This allows for much tighter control over the process as well as defect mitigation on the fly during production. The next few years are going to be very interesting for manufacturing worldwide. I expect it won't just be the US who is looking to bring at least a portion back to their country...or to countries which are cheaper/easier to work with.

Re: Manufacturing the Librem 5 USA Phone in the US

#36
post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This multiplier (800x2.5) seems much lower than I'd expect. For prototype quantities (<100), I have consistently seen a multiplier of 8 or so, for the exact same spec (and verified within-spec after receiving the parts).

That actually seems about right to me, at least for the type of mfg I'm used to. Compare low-run CNC quotes from Hubs (China) and Xometry (USA) - Xometry is usually ~2-3x the price. I've seen similar for IM prices although I have less experience there. One caveat is that in China it's relatively cheap to move stuff between factories (Say the part is made in factory 1, then painted in factory 2, then laser-etched in f…

Can you recommend some other Xometry/Hubs competitors for hobby use?

Re: Manufacturing the Librem 5 USA Phone in the US

#37

This is really cool, but it's $2,000. The problem is the specs don't quite justify a $2,000 price tag. The iPhone 12 Pro Max is $1,099 for 256Gb model. The Librem 5 has 32Gb built in. Granted you can expand storage on the Librem 5, but that's added cost on top of the $2,000. There are other specs to compare, but storage is an easy target. I think the project is awesome, and I'd be very inclined to purchase one, but I…

For perspective a name-brand 256gb microsd card currently retails for roughly $30.

The value here isn't in raw specs, it's in privacy and respect for the user, which is a total blow out in favor of the librem.

Re: Manufacturing the Librem 5 USA Phone in the US

#40
post #13
post #4

I applaud this accomplishment. I think there will be a push to manufacture more semiconductor-intensive products in the US over the next several years as tensions with China continue to heat up and Taiwan is left as a single point of failure. I know progress is already being made with TSMC building new fabs in the US. I will note that Purism do not say what their production capacity is, and that it would probably be…

There is also debate on if the US should invest in that. Political tensions with China are one factor. However remember there are limited resources so investing in this means something else can't be invested in. Really this should be a world wide concern: if China is so bad how can we build up someone more friendly - it need not be the US. Could be Germany, could be Kenya (I understand China is investing there)

> investing in this means something else can't be invested in

Eh, maybe - often that "something else" is capital sitting on its hands or investing in things that serve to protect its own interests.

Post reply on HN