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iFixit tells the sad story of how Samsung “ruined” its upcycling program

arstechnica.com

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Re: iFixit tells the sad story of how Samsung “ruined” its upcycling program

#31

Post by def_true_false »

AshamedCaptain wrote: post #13

I am the first to avoid buying any device with a locked bootloader, but.... how exactly is an unlocked bootloader after 4 years of use going to help to reduce e-waste? It's not magically going to convert the phone into a Raspberry Pi anymore than Debian is going to suddenly port itself to a 4-year-old platform. And even that would reduce e-waste only by a rounding error. Now, guaranteeing Android updates 4 YEARS, or…

Yeah, I would rather trust some random dude from xda than the phone vendor to keep their promise of keeping it up to date. In fact you can easily get a 4 year old device and put Android 11 on it, you just have to avoid the vendors who intentionally make it hard.

Re: iFixit tells the sad story of how Samsung “ruined” its upcycling program

#32

Post by AshamedCaptain »

webmobdev wrote: post #30
AshamedCaptain wrote: post #13

I am the first to avoid buying any device with a locked bootloader, but.... how exactly is an unlocked bootloader after 4 years of use going to help to reduce e-waste? It's not magically going to convert the phone into a Raspberry Pi anymore than Debian is going to suddenly port itself to a 4-year-old platform. And even that would reduce e-waste only by a rounding error. Now, guaranteeing Android updates 4 YEARS, or…

how exactly is an unlocked bootloader after 4 years of use going to help to reduce e-waste? It allows you install a different operating systems. When newer versions of Windows ran slower on old systems, many people switched to Linux to use the same hardware for some more years. And we do have different mobile OS too today. The free LineageOS also has breathed new life to many an old device. Jolla, a Finnish company,…

And absolutely none of these platforms will start working on 4-year old Samsung hardware because of an unlocked bootloader. In fact, the bootloaders can be unlocked right now on most Exynos devices, so why can't I run Jolla on a Samsung device?

Re: iFixit tells the sad story of how Samsung “ruined” its upcycling program

#33

Post by gruez »

webmobdev wrote: post #29
slownews45 wrote: post #17

Folks give endless crap around apple's lack of repairability. Bottom line however is that Apple's phones get a ton of use and re-use for a number of reasons. 1) Really hard now to do the fake replacement battery scams, Apple alerts buyer if a new battery was put in outside of apples approved ecosystem. 2) Fantastic duration on updates. Despite the claims of the more repairable androids, far too many NEVER update, AND…

Here's a different perspective: Really hard now to do the fake replacement battery scams Really hard to replace battery. Period. It's a scammy tactic to make battery repairs very costly. Fantastic duration on updates An open system like the Sony Open Devices phone, that allows you to unlock the bootloader, is better for consumers as it allows users to even install a different mobile operating system on their phone! (…

> They are only getting security updates that plug holes that allow an iDevice to be Jailbroken. They sadly don't get updates for the default apps like Safari or Photos.

This seems to be contradicted by https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT212341, which states it's getting security updates even for webkit.

Re: iFixit tells the sad story of how Samsung “ruined” its upcycling program

#34

Post by MomoXenosaga »

gumby wrote: post #15
quadrangle wrote: post #6

Conflict-of-interest. If your business model is based on artificial obsolesence and 100% of the cost of e-waste and disposal is externalized, then anything that truly encourages effective continued use of older models is directly opposed to the business model. And while it's something to have marketable trust-building by taking some responsibility for the waste and longer life-span, that also invites people to start…

> If your business model is based on artificial obsolesence and 100% of the cost of e-waste and disposal is externalized, then anything that truly encourages effective continued use of older models is directly opposed to the business model. You’d think more companies would skip that model: bmw and Apple benefit from the high sale value of their devices, in part due to continued support. It doesn’t hurt that Californi…

My Poco cost me €349. In two and a half years I'll replace it for something new. Long term support isn't even a concern, for that price who gives a shit?

Re: iFixit tells the sad story of how Samsung “ruined” its upcycling program

#35

Post by BayAreaEscapee »

WorldMaker wrote: post #28
gumby wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If your business model is based on artificial obsolesence and 100% of the cost of e-waste and disposal is externalized, then anything that truly encourages effective continued use of older models is directly opposed to the business model. You’d think more companies would skip that model: bmw and Apple benefit from the high sale value of their devices, in part due to continued support. It doesn’t hurt that Californi…

Samsung gives the impression that they'd love their business model to look like Apple or BMW and be a "lifestyle brand" (if not quite a "luxury brand"). My immediate thoughts from the article was wondering how much Samsung regrets being tied to Android at this point. The timing of the project suggests to me that maybe there may have been some hope at Samsung that they could use "upcycling" as a trojan platform for mi…

It's true that Google has made quite a bit of awful and customer-hostile decisions about the path of Android. But what is Samsung's alternative to Android? There is none. All alternative operating systems (PalmOS, Symbian, Blackberry, etc) have failed. A new, proprietary OS from Samsung would almost certainly fail. They can't chain their cart to Apple. Android is the only possibility.

Re: iFixit tells the sad story of how Samsung “ruined” its upcycling program

#36

Post by j16sdiz »

BayAreaEscapee wrote: post #35
WorldMaker wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Samsung gives the impression that they'd love their business model to look like Apple or BMW and be a "lifestyle brand" (if not quite a "luxury brand"). My immediate thoughts from the article was wondering how much Samsung regrets being tied to Android at this point. The timing of the project suggests to me that maybe there may have been some hope at Samsung that they could use "upcycling" as a trojan platform for mi…

It's true that Google has made quite a bit of awful and customer-hostile decisions about the path of Android. But what is Samsung's alternative to Android? There is none. All alternative operating systems (PalmOS, Symbian, Blackberry, etc) have failed. A new, proprietary OS from Samsung would almost certainly fail. They can't chain their cart to Apple. Android is the only possibility.

Samsung have Tizen. It is still being used in smartwatch

Re: iFixit tells the sad story of how Samsung “ruined” its upcycling program

#37

Post by virtue3 »

gumby wrote: post #15
quadrangle wrote: post #6

Conflict-of-interest. If your business model is based on artificial obsolesence and 100% of the cost of e-waste and disposal is externalized, then anything that truly encourages effective continued use of older models is directly opposed to the business model. And while it's something to have marketable trust-building by taking some responsibility for the waste and longer life-span, that also invites people to start…

> If your business model is based on artificial obsolesence and 100% of the cost of e-waste and disposal is externalized, then anything that truly encourages effective continued use of older models is directly opposed to the business model. You’d think more companies would skip that model: bmw and Apple benefit from the high sale value of their devices, in part due to continued support. It doesn’t hurt that Californi…

Idk about that. I'm pretty sure that people who constantly want a new BMW just lease. BMW has this real awful spot with their 5yr warranty so a lot of people buy a pre-owned BMW off a lease and then drive it for 3 years and then get absolutely wrecked by the maintenance costs.

Apple's business model is reliant on people buying a WHOLE NEW PHONE for ~1000$ every 2-3 years. And you get to sell your old phone for what? like 200$ trade in?

Apple also constantly locks you out every 5-6 years of iOS updates and then you can't run, say, spotify on your old ipod touch because you can't update the OS.

I actually find it hard to believe your propping Apple up here with their huge fight against right to repair.

Re: iFixit tells the sad story of how Samsung “ruined” its upcycling program

#38

Post by ramphastidae »

virtue3 wrote: post #37
gumby wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If your business model is based on artificial obsolesence and 100% of the cost of e-waste and disposal is externalized, then anything that truly encourages effective continued use of older models is directly opposed to the business model. You’d think more companies would skip that model: bmw and Apple benefit from the high sale value of their devices, in part due to continued support. It doesn’t hurt that Californi…

Idk about that. I'm pretty sure that people who constantly want a new BMW just lease. BMW has this real awful spot with their 5yr warranty so a lot of people buy a pre-owned BMW off a lease and then drive it for 3 years and then get absolutely wrecked by the maintenance costs. Apple's business model is reliant on people buying a WHOLE NEW PHONE for ~1000$ every 2-3 years. And you get to sell your old phone for what?…

So ... what’s your example of a company besides Apple currently providing first-class mobile OS support for their 5+ year old devices?

Re: iFixit tells the sad story of how Samsung “ruined” its upcycling program

#39

Post by perryizgr8 »

AshamedCaptain wrote: post #13

I am the first to avoid buying any device with a locked bootloader, but.... how exactly is an unlocked bootloader after 4 years of use going to help to reduce e-waste? It's not magically going to convert the phone into a Raspberry Pi anymore than Debian is going to suddenly port itself to a 4-year-old platform. And even that would reduce e-waste only by a rounding error. Now, guaranteeing Android updates 4 YEARS, or…

Samsung already does 4 years updates I think. It's very good, probably better than most other phone manufacturers. But it's a joke compared to how long you can keep using a good laptop.

Re: iFixit tells the sad story of how Samsung “ruined” its upcycling program

#40

Post by 908B64B197 »

ramphastidae wrote: post #38
virtue3 wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Idk about that. I'm pretty sure that people who constantly want a new BMW just lease. BMW has this real awful spot with their 5yr warranty so a lot of people buy a pre-owned BMW off a lease and then drive it for 3 years and then get absolutely wrecked by the maintenance costs. Apple's business model is reliant on people buying a WHOLE NEW PHONE for ~1000$ every 2-3 years. And you get to sell your old phone for what?…

So ... what’s your example of a company besides Apple currently providing first-class mobile OS support for their 5+ year old devices?

Wait Android phones can get updated?
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