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Temptation of the Apple: Dolphin on macOS M1

dolphin-emu.org

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Re: Temptation of the Apple: Dolphin on macOS M1

#31

Post by kstenerud »

jeroenhd wrote: post #24

It's clear AS is a great advancement in general computing, but every piece like this reads as "the hardware is amazing, and it's totally worth it to work around these arbitrary software restrictions". This performance would've been available on iPads years ago if it wasn't for Apple's blanket ban on JIT and the likes. Apple is one of those companies whose hardware I'd love to have if it wasn't for their software and…

I see it this way: Apple played the part of trailblazer, demonstrating that it was possible to run circles around Intel with modern RISC designs. We'll be seeing many more entries into the marketplace over the next few years, and MUCH greater diversity and consumer choice as a result.

Sure, Apple did it for selfish reasons and they'll keep their platforms locked up as much as they can get away with, but the end result is a benefit for all as powerful and open RISC systems proliferate.

Re: Temptation of the Apple: Dolphin on macOS M1

#32

Post by threeseed »

jeroenhd wrote: post #24

It's clear AS is a great advancement in general computing, but every piece like this reads as "the hardware is amazing, and it's totally worth it to work around these arbitrary software restrictions". This performance would've been available on iPads years ago if it wasn't for Apple's blanket ban on JIT and the likes. Apple is one of those companies whose hardware I'd love to have if it wasn't for their software and…

Apple’s blanket ban on interpreted code is not arbitrary.

It is there to prevent apps circumventing the review process and security model ie. apps pretending to do X during the review process and then doing Y when in use or obfuscating their use of private APIs. Now you can argue these restrictions are unreasonable but many of us don’t want our iPads or iPhones to be like our computers.

Re: Temptation of the Apple: Dolphin on macOS M1

#33

Post by jonathanstrange »

jeroenhd wrote: post #24

It's clear AS is a great advancement in general computing, but every piece like this reads as "the hardware is amazing, and it's totally worth it to work around these arbitrary software restrictions". This performance would've been available on iPads years ago if it wasn't for Apple's blanket ban on JIT and the likes. Apple is one of those companies whose hardware I'd love to have if it wasn't for their software and…

Not to be contrary for being contrary, but for me it's pretty much he opposite. I've never had complaints about the software when I was an Apple customer (i.e. from 1992 to 2007) and don't have reasons that there is any particular software problem. But the hardware keeps me from buying macs. It doesn't matter how fast Apple's laptops become, as long as they don't have replaceable batteries, have insufficient RAM, and do not come with glare-free screens, I'm not going to become an Apple customer (or developer) ever again.

The power cables are too short and the obsolescence is too planned in modern Apple hardware.

Re: Temptation of the Apple: Dolphin on macOS M1

#34

Post by klelatti »

jeroenhd wrote: post #24

It's clear AS is a great advancement in general computing, but every piece like this reads as "the hardware is amazing, and it's totally worth it to work around these arbitrary software restrictions". This performance would've been available on iPads years ago if it wasn't for Apple's blanket ban on JIT and the likes. Apple is one of those companies whose hardware I'd love to have if it wasn't for their software and…

You can't separate the hardware from the software and corporate decisions though.

The problem you've got here is that the iOS model has worked incredibly well for Apple. Without that you wouldn't have had the investment that has delivered the M1.

I'd love to be able to run Firefox on the iPad. I also disagree strongly with some of Apple's decisions - especially on the App Store. However, where we are now is a better outcome than a hypothetical position where iOS is less successful and Apple is using inferior CPU designs. After all I can always buy an Android tablet if I want to run Firefox.

Re: Temptation of the Apple: Dolphin on macOS M1

#35

Post by threeseed »

nojito wrote: post #30
jeroenhd wrote: post #24

It's clear AS is a great advancement in general computing, but every piece like this reads as "the hardware is amazing, and it's totally worth it to work around these arbitrary software restrictions". This performance would've been available on iPads years ago if it wasn't for Apple's blanket ban on JIT and the likes. Apple is one of those companies whose hardware I'd love to have if it wasn't for their software and…

Apple doesn't sell hardware/software. They sell experiences. It's not in their interest to sell/provide and support an experience they didn't make. Their success shows that experiences are all that really matter despite what the vocal HN userbase routinely shares.

I always laugh when I read comments saying they won’t buy an iPad because it doesn’t have custom browsing engines, terminals, network sniffers, emulators, VMs etc.

As though Apple is an open source company selling to developers.

Re: Temptation of the Apple: Dolphin on macOS M1

#36

Post by notsureaboutpg »

threeseed wrote: post #32
jeroenhd wrote: post #24

It's clear AS is a great advancement in general computing, but every piece like this reads as "the hardware is amazing, and it's totally worth it to work around these arbitrary software restrictions". This performance would've been available on iPads years ago if it wasn't for Apple's blanket ban on JIT and the likes. Apple is one of those companies whose hardware I'd love to have if it wasn't for their software and…

Apple’s blanket ban on interpreted code is not arbitrary. It is there to prevent apps circumventing the review process and security model ie. apps pretending to do X during the review process and then doing Y when in use or obfuscating their use of private APIs. Now you can argue these restrictions are unreasonable but many of us don’t want our iPads or iPhones to be like our computers.

Fine, they aren't arbitrary (obviously a company worth that much isn't making any arbitrary decisions).

But they still suck and degrade the performance for computing enthusiasts who most on this platform are (including me).

I want to push hardware to it's limits because it's fun because there's fun things out there when you do that. Apple wants me to not bork my system or get confused when an app tricks me or have to show up at their Genius Bar with a problem they can't fix from a third party app they've never heard of.

That's fine, but I won't get in that situation, so I don't want hardware locked down by software that worries I will.

Re: Temptation of the Apple: Dolphin on macOS M1

#37

Post by [deleted] »

klelatti wrote: post #34
jeroenhd wrote: post #24

It's clear AS is a great advancement in general computing, but every piece like this reads as "the hardware is amazing, and it's totally worth it to work around these arbitrary software restrictions". This performance would've been available on iPads years ago if it wasn't for Apple's blanket ban on JIT and the likes. Apple is one of those companies whose hardware I'd love to have if it wasn't for their software and…

You can't separate the hardware from the software and corporate decisions though. The problem you've got here is that the iOS model has worked incredibly well for Apple. Without that you wouldn't have had the investment that has delivered the M1. I'd love to be able to run Firefox on the iPad. I also disagree strongly with some of Apple's decisions - especially on the App Store. However, where we are now is a better…

[deleted]

Re: Temptation of the Apple: Dolphin on macOS M1

#38

Post by wffurr »

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #27
jeroenhd wrote: post #24

It's clear AS is a great advancement in general computing, but every piece like this reads as "the hardware is amazing, and it's totally worth it to work around these arbitrary software restrictions". This performance would've been available on iPads years ago if it wasn't for Apple's blanket ban on JIT and the likes. Apple is one of those companies whose hardware I'd love to have if it wasn't for their software and…

The Write XOR Execute restriction discussed in the article is a security feature, and it’s greatly beneficial from a security standpoint. > Until I can run a proper version of Firefox on iPad FireFox for iOS works just fine. The Gecko vs WebKit difference doesn’t really matter in practice. If you want general purpose computing, just get a Mac. You can run Firefox and any other program you’d like. It would be great if…

There is an opt-in developer mode on iOS. You can compile and install any software you want on your own iPad; no paid Apple developer account needed.

There’s even a way to get W^X memory regions on iOS by abusing ptrace: https://saagarjha.com/blog/2020/02/23/jailed-just-in-time-co...

It can’t be submitted to the App Store or deployed with TestFlight, but you can build and install an app using that hack just fine on your own device.

Open source browser vendors, like Firefox and Chromium, could provide builds that enable a full browser engine experience on iOS devices, were they to think it worth the effort.

Re: Temptation of the Apple: Dolphin on macOS M1

#39

Post by dimitrios1 »

rvz wrote: post #9

> There's undeniable excitement for the next generation of AArch64 hardware to see how much further that this can go. This is what I am looking forward to. In the case for Apple Silicon, the next generation will be even better and is not far off from announcing the newer processors that will supersede M1 in WWDC. The M1 only shows what's possible for Apple Silicon and the newer generation of ARM-based Macs will impre…

I traded in my inferior Intel based 2020 13 inch macbook pro for the M1 MBP and it only costed me 100 dollars, so I went ahead and pulled the trigger. The battery life was abysmal on the intel based and I was desperate. I love the form factor and the size, I just never could get into any real programming tasks without being strapped to a power source.

Re: Temptation of the Apple: Dolphin on macOS M1

#40

Post by alisonkisk »

threeseed wrote: post #32
jeroenhd wrote: post #24

It's clear AS is a great advancement in general computing, but every piece like this reads as "the hardware is amazing, and it's totally worth it to work around these arbitrary software restrictions". This performance would've been available on iPads years ago if it wasn't for Apple's blanket ban on JIT and the likes. Apple is one of those companies whose hardware I'd love to have if it wasn't for their software and…

Apple’s blanket ban on interpreted code is not arbitrary. It is there to prevent apps circumventing the review process and security model ie. apps pretending to do X during the review process and then doing Y when in use or obfuscating their use of private APIs. Now you can argue these restrictions are unreasonable but many of us don’t want our iPads or iPhones to be like our computers.

> many of us don’t want our iPads or iPhones to be like our computers.

Thats completely irrelevant to anyone else's iPad, which has no impact on your iPad's security. Would you be in favor of Apple banning whatever Mac OS app you use because I don't want to use it?

And what even is the point of having a secure iPad if you're also going to run an insecure computer?

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