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Judge in Fortnite case holds Tim Cook's feet to the fire

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Re: Judge in Fortnite case holds Tim Cook's feet to the fire

#31

Post by xixo »

slver wrote: post #13
fxtentacle wrote: post #8

I really hope Epic will release a gaming phone. It appears they have enough cash, enough clever people, and a good connection to Chinese manufacturers through their partners. If they make it Android-based but Open Source, similar to how the Unreal Engine contains proprietary components while remaining easy to customize, that could be quite the popular move for grabbing market share from Apple and Google. I, at least,…

> I really hope Epic will release a gaming phone. Maybe think through what you're proposing. Do you believe most of Epic's customers will buy two phones, charge two phones and carry two phones just so they can play their games, while also having access to first-class OS services like Google and Apple offer? No.

Many people recycle phones every couple of years. If the phone functions as a typical smartphone with a gaming bent, it could replace traditional smartphones for folks who want to game. Gamers also carry secondary hand-held devices (like the Nintendo Switch) for dedicated gameplay.

Re: Judge in Fortnite case holds Tim Cook's feet to the fire

#32

Post by edoceo »

fxtentacle wrote: post #8

I really hope Epic will release a gaming phone. It appears they have enough cash, enough clever people, and a good connection to Chinese manufacturers through their partners. If they make it Android-based but Open Source, similar to how the Unreal Engine contains proprietary components while remaining easy to customize, that could be quite the popular move for grabbing market share from Apple and Google. I, at least,…

Like a PSP that makes calls, texts and surfs the web? With HDMI out (2x?) it could be a console in your pocket. Bluetooth controllers? Now I want this. Epic are you listening!?

Re: Judge in Fortnite case holds Tim Cook's feet to the fire

#33

Post by slver »

xixo wrote: post #31
slver wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I really hope Epic will release a gaming phone. Maybe think through what you're proposing. Do you believe most of Epic's customers will buy two phones, charge two phones and carry two phones just so they can play their games, while also having access to first-class OS services like Google and Apple offer? No.

Many people recycle phones every couple of years. If the phone functions as a typical smartphone with a gaming bent, it could replace traditional smartphones for folks who want to game. Gamers also carry secondary hand-held devices (like the Nintendo Switch) for dedicated gameplay.

Do you realize how many failed devices fit that category. Those who don't know their history...

Re: Judge in Fortnite case holds Tim Cook's feet to the fire

#34

Post by alex_young »

Remember that when the iPhone was launched there was no app store. All you could do was 'install' a web app.

Now we have progressive web apps with full offline functionality, but installing them is a nightmare.

You have to dig through the share menu from Safari (tough luck if you use another browser) to install one, and Apple removes it after some time limit.

Maybe a half measure would be to make that process less restrictive and allow companies to directly distribute software to their users again...

Re: Judge in Fortnite case holds Tim Cook's feet to the fire

#35

Post by echelon »

w7 wrote: post #18
echelon wrote: post #3

Good! It's about time that our industry's monopoly of the ages is put to bed. Apple put us in the kettle and slowly turned up the heat. They delivered good hardware, good software, but at the same time demanded that nobody else have the ability to run JIT, other runtimes, first-class web, browsers, marketplaces, etc. Over time, Apple rose to 50% of the market, all the while exacting complete control and taxing all ma…

I'm confused, don't we allow this level of control with video game consoles? (Heck Sony and Microsoft also take 30% cuts) What's the difference other than form factor?

I message my boss on PS5 Slack and tell him I'm done for the day.

I then take my PS5 to the mall, because I carry it with me to do all of my financial transactions. Later, I log onto my PS5 bank account app to check my spending limits.

I check PS5 Yelp for a list of restaurants. I head out, but I'm careful to check my PS5 GPS to know where I'm headed. I fill up my car using PS5 pay, and as I leave get messages from potential romantic matches on PS5 Tinder.

Of course Sony gets a cut of every transaction and there are no other options than taking your PS5 with you everywhere.

Oh wait, there's Switch, Xbox, PC, Steam, Epic, GOG, ...? Lots of options for games. But what about email, finance, dating, and everything else I would do on my PS5? Gaming devices aren't general purpose computers and don't do general purpose business, communication, finance, etc.

Gaming is a toy and comparatively niche industry with lots of consumer choice. The iPhone is 50% of all commerce in all industries for all Americans.

Apple has locked down computing behind an iron curtain, and they're clawing away at more and more as the days go by. If the trend continues, every restaurant will be Apple (instead of Taco Bell), and you'll license your car and pay Apple by the mile. The signs you see out your window will have to pay Apple a licensing fee.

Re: Judge in Fortnite case holds Tim Cook's feet to the fire

#36

Post by kevingadd »

fxtentacle wrote: post #8

I really hope Epic will release a gaming phone. It appears they have enough cash, enough clever people, and a good connection to Chinese manufacturers through their partners. If they make it Android-based but Open Source, similar to how the Unreal Engine contains proprietary components while remaining easy to customize, that could be quite the popular move for grabbing market share from Apple and Google. I, at least,…

A gaming phone doesn't really solve any of the issues at stake in this case, though. And if they want to reach people who want handhelds, they can just encourage them to buy a Switch and play Fortnite there. It would certainly be something they could do, but I think their mixed success with the Epic Games Store so far indicates that their huge cash reserves and technical expertise aren't sufficient to just nail any big challenge they take on.

Re: Judge in Fortnite case holds Tim Cook's feet to the fire

#37

Post by bluescrn »

w7 wrote: post #18
echelon wrote: post #3

Good! It's about time that our industry's monopoly of the ages is put to bed. Apple put us in the kettle and slowly turned up the heat. They delivered good hardware, good software, but at the same time demanded that nobody else have the ability to run JIT, other runtimes, first-class web, browsers, marketplaces, etc. Over time, Apple rose to 50% of the market, all the while exacting complete control and taxing all ma…

I'm confused, don't we allow this level of control with video game consoles? (Heck Sony and Microsoft also take 30% cuts) What's the difference other than form factor?

Gaming is unimportant.

General-purpose computing is gradually being replaced by locked-down phones and tablets, and that's much more concerning.

Re: Judge in Fortnite case holds Tim Cook's feet to the fire

#40

Post by ncann »

w7 wrote: post #18
echelon wrote: post #3

Good! It's about time that our industry's monopoly of the ages is put to bed. Apple put us in the kettle and slowly turned up the heat. They delivered good hardware, good software, but at the same time demanded that nobody else have the ability to run JIT, other runtimes, first-class web, browsers, marketplaces, etc. Over time, Apple rose to 50% of the market, all the while exacting complete control and taxing all ma…

I'm confused, don't we allow this level of control with video game consoles? (Heck Sony and Microsoft also take 30% cuts) What's the difference other than form factor?

The line is very blurry. The only major difference between a console and a smartphone is that a console is intended from the get go to be a gaming device, whereas a smartphone is more of a generic computing device, but even then it's hard to draw a meaningful argument on why one should be treated differently from the other.
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