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Hyundai Nexo sets new world record 887.5 km travelled on single tank of hydrogen

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Re: Hyundai Nexo sets new world record 887.5 km travelled on single tank of hydrogen

#31

Post by jdblair »

MattRix wrote: post #16

What is the appeal of a hydrogen car vs an eletric car? The range appears to be similar, but being able to charge at home is so much more convenient.

It depends on how you define convenient. Hydrogen can be refilled quickly, in minutes, like a conventional liquid fueled car. If there were a network of hydrogen filling stations then driving, especially long distances, would be similar to driving a liquid fueled car.

Re: Hyundai Nexo sets new world record 887.5 km travelled on single tank of hydrogen

#32

Post by giantg2 »

Keyframe wrote: post #15

Isn't driving on a tank full of hydrogen like super dangerous?

It can be very safe if using hydride tanks. I think there are some international arms controls related to hydrogen bombs that makes hydride tanks difficult to produce.

Re: Hyundai Nexo sets new world record 887.5 km travelled on single tank of hydrogen

#33

Post by starfallg »

rorykoehler wrote: post #4

I have an acquaintance who has made a substantial fortune from energy focused startups (including a battery tech one) and is now working on another hard tech startup and they are very critical of hydrogen as a fuel. I’ve had superficial conversations with them about it but could never get a sense of their fundamental arguments. Is hydrogen a non starter or are they just protecting their investments with FUD?

There's a lot of Hydrogen FUD for sure, but the core of the problem is storage and transport. Hydrogen is just extremely hard to store and move around pressurised. This makes it uneconomical in most use cases. There's nothing fundamentally wrong about it as a technology (if you treat it as a energy store instead of a fuel), just engineering challenges and cost.

Re: Hyundai Nexo sets new world record 887.5 km travelled on single tank of hydrogen

#34

Post by KMnO4 »

rorykoehler wrote: post #4

I have an acquaintance who has made a substantial fortune from energy focused startups (including a battery tech one) and is now working on another hard tech startup and they are very critical of hydrogen as a fuel. I’ve had superficial conversations with them about it but could never get a sense of their fundamental arguments. Is hydrogen a non starter or are they just protecting their investments with FUD?

There’s a ridiculous amount of of FUD from the industry (at both/all ends). It’s a Catch 22. You need infrastructure before people will invest in infrastructure. You don’t want to invest the millions/billions in the wrong one, so people spread FUD to protect their investment. For example, Elon Musk had doubled down on battery tech, so H2 winning out isn’t in his best interest.

Re: Hyundai Nexo sets new world record 887.5 km travelled on single tank of hydrogen

#35

Post by Retric »

MattRix wrote: post #16

What is the appeal of a hydrogen car vs an eletric car? The range appears to be similar, but being able to charge at home is so much more convenient.

Hydrogen is likely a much better fit for semi trucks, aircraft, boats, and remote rail lines than electric cars. The advantage is twofold, first you can produce and then cheaply store it for weeks and it very quickly refills a car.

However the downsides and required infrastructure is massive. Overall it’s simply a poor fit vs modern EV’s but just close enough to viable to get significant investments.

Re: Hyundai Nexo sets new world record 887.5 km travelled on single tank of hydrogen

#36

Post by giantg2 »

KMnO4 wrote: post #12

Since “tank” isn’t a unit of measure, I suppose anyone could trivially break the record with a larger tank. From the article: > The Nexo consumed 6.27kg of H2 For comparison with the other production H2 cars: Toyota Mirai: 5.6kg Honda Clarity: 5.0kg Seems like a promising technology. My understanding is that the current blocker is infrastructure. It’s hard to pressurize up to 10,000 PSI, so many facilities are only a…

Hydride tanks don't require those high pressures. Other than nuclear arms treaties, is there a technical reason they don't use those instead?

Re: Hyundai Nexo sets new world record 887.5 km travelled on single tank of hydrogen

#37

Post by MengerSponge »

Vvector wrote: post #22
Keyframe wrote: post #15

Isn't driving on a tank full of hydrogen like super dangerous?

Compared to a tank full of gasoline?

Yes. Gasoline has a relatively narrow ignition range, it has much less rigorous sealing requirements, and it burns with a flame that's visible in daylight.

The problem is that we can't easily make gasoline with solar panels and water.

Re: Hyundai Nexo sets new world record 887.5 km travelled on single tank of hydrogen

#38

Post by cbolton »

timthorn wrote: post #19
MattRix wrote: post #16

What is the appeal of a hydrogen car vs an eletric car? The range appears to be similar, but being able to charge at home is so much more convenient.

Hydrogen cars usually are electric cars. The main advantage to the owner is being able to fill the tank in minutes, and to society as a whole is being able to manage the H2 generation process to align with supply and demand on the grid.

If we're going to store energy by generating H2, is it more efficient to consume it in small cars rather than in big plants that convert it back to electrical power on demand?

Re: Hyundai Nexo sets new world record 887.5 km travelled on single tank of hydrogen

#39

Post by bildung »

metalliqaz wrote: post #30
KMnO4 wrote: post #12

Since “tank” isn’t a unit of measure, I suppose anyone could trivially break the record with a larger tank. From the article: > The Nexo consumed 6.27kg of H2 For comparison with the other production H2 cars: Toyota Mirai: 5.6kg Honda Clarity: 5.0kg Seems like a promising technology. My understanding is that the current blocker is infrastructure. It’s hard to pressurize up to 10,000 PSI, so many facilities are only a…

Sounds like you're talking about distribution infrastructure, which is true but in my mind the biggest issue is efficiency. Storing and using H2 isn't very efficient, and current production techniques for H2 emit as much or more carbon as Diesel.

All true, though to be fair CO2 savings with electric cars also only range, depending on car and country (i.e. local infrastructure and means of electricity production), from 0% to 35% of lifetime CO2 emissions of an equivalent ICE car). https://theicct.org/sites/default/files/publications/EV-life...
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