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NYC mayor demands $600M refund on software project

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Re: NYC mayor demands $600M refund on software project

#31

Post by bmelton »

kenjackson wrote: post #14
thematt wrote: post #8

Although New York has "received a working system that will advance our management ability ... because the project was apparently tainted by fraud and kickback schemes, the City must be made whole" ... The city is also planning to launch a request for information (RFI) process in January in search of alternative timekeeping systems. Wow. So they eventually got a working system. Now they're throwing it away and going t…

Timekeeping systems are actually extremely complicated. EXTREMELY sophisticated. The level of detail it takes to get one right is painstaking, and it is key to a city's survival. It's complex enough that you wouldn't understand it, nor would any auditor. For that reason, I just started a new startup company: TimeKeep NYC. We specialize in timekeeping software for NYC area cities. Looking for employees now, especially…

Have you already looked into DCAA compliance? If not, your system can't be used for any federal systems, and likely aren't available to be used by most state and municipal government agencies.

Re: NYC mayor demands $600M refund on software project

#32

Post by mavelikara »

thematt wrote: post #8

Although New York has "received a working system that will advance our management ability ... because the project was apparently tainted by fraud and kickback schemes, the City must be made whole" ... The city is also planning to launch a request for information (RFI) process in January in search of alternative timekeeping systems. Wow. So they eventually got a working system. Now they're throwing it away and going t…

For those wondering how the project could have cost so much, here are some of the annual salaries that were paid out:

  Job Title                     Annual Salary
  -------------------------------------------
  Specialist, Level 4A          $676, 031
  Project Manager, Level 4      $661, 628
  Project Manager, Level 3      $632, 653
  Project Manager, Level 3D     $601, 286
From http://www.nydailynews.com/topics/Gerard+Denault/photos

Re: NYC mayor demands $600M refund on software project

#33

Post by heydenberk »

tkahn6 wrote: post #25
mdda wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just so people can put this in perspective, a Bloomberg terminal license costs approx $1750 per month, with a two year contract. The software basically gives users a fairly raw interface to financial data, analytics and an email/IM system. In a sales call, the Bloomberg sales reps will demonstrate endless functionality of the terminal : there's a huge amount there. The dirty secret is, though, that most people use on…

Full disclosure I'm an intern at Bloomberg. You're essentially correct on all points but clients tend to use many more than 4 functions though significantly less than the total number. And with regards to IM and email, it should be noted that any user of a Bloomberg terminal can IM any other user anywhere in the world (there's no 'friending' or anything). Many, many trades are conducted over IM or 'IB' as it's called…

> The most accurate analog I can think of to the Bloombeg terminal is Emacs. It has everything and the kitchen sink (News, dining suggestions, email, IM, sports updates, etc.) and clients are extremely particular about functionality.

Of course, Emacs is free. Do you think Bloomberg is susceptible to competition from a much lower-priced and much leaner startup?

Re: NYC mayor demands $600M refund on software project

#34

Post by [deleted] »

heydenberk wrote: post #33
tkahn6 wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Full disclosure I'm an intern at Bloomberg. You're essentially correct on all points but clients tend to use many more than 4 functions though significantly less than the total number. And with regards to IM and email, it should be noted that any user of a Bloomberg terminal can IM any other user anywhere in the world (there's no 'friending' or anything). Many, many trades are conducted over IM or 'IB' as it's called…

> The most accurate analog I can think of to the Bloombeg terminal is Emacs. It has everything and the kitchen sink (News, dining suggestions, email, IM, sports updates, etc.) and clients are extremely particular about functionality. Of course, Emacs is free . Do you think Bloomberg is susceptible to competition from a much lower-priced and much leaner startup?

[deleted]

Re: NYC mayor demands $600M refund on software project

#35

Post by [deleted] »

smokeyj wrote: post #27
ams6110 wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Things like varying overtime rates depending on time of day, accumulated hours, whether it's a holiday, different rates for depending on specific work assignments, etc. It's not as simple as a flat rate x number of hours. But it's nothing that hasn't been done before, either.

At first I was like, "wow this would take me five minutes to program". Now it's looking like a solid 20 minutes.

[deleted]

Re: NYC mayor demands $600M refund on software project

#36

Post by derpaderp »

smokeyj wrote: post #27
ams6110 wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Things like varying overtime rates depending on time of day, accumulated hours, whether it's a holiday, different rates for depending on specific work assignments, etc. It's not as simple as a flat rate x number of hours. But it's nothing that hasn't been done before, either.

At first I was like, "wow this would take me five minutes to program". Now it's looking like a solid 20 minutes.

You say that now. Try writing a real world app some time.

Re: NYC mayor demands $600M refund on software project

#37

Post by anon7865 »

kenjackson wrote: post #14
thematt wrote: post #8

Although New York has "received a working system that will advance our management ability ... because the project was apparently tainted by fraud and kickback schemes, the City must be made whole" ... The city is also planning to launch a request for information (RFI) process in January in search of alternative timekeeping systems. Wow. So they eventually got a working system. Now they're throwing it away and going t…

Timekeeping systems are actually extremely complicated. EXTREMELY sophisticated. The level of detail it takes to get one right is painstaking, and it is key to a city's survival. It's complex enough that you wouldn't understand it, nor would any auditor. For that reason, I just started a new startup company: TimeKeep NYC. We specialize in timekeeping software for NYC area cities. Looking for employees now, especially…

> especially ones who aren't snitches

The brazenness...only in NYC.

Also, if you ever get in the position of saying "X is extremely complicated and I can't explain it to you" it is because you stand to benefit by designing a system poorly, or you aren't bright enough or don't have the experience to realize that you can reframe the problem. Algebraic geometry is also complicated, but these days there are plenty of books that will explain it to you, and the tools (like sheaves) are well-established and standard.

Obfuscation is the MO of installed, configured enterprise software. If there were an incentive to create a simple, effective solution, then, lo and behold, one would be created. The incentive is almost never there.

Take Unix for example. It is simple and effective (and flimsy as all heck) but before it came along, obtuse operating systems were the norm. It is worth pointing out that A) Thompson and Ritchie are geniuses and B) there was no financial incentive.

Re: NYC mayor demands $600M refund on software project

#38

Post by bluedanieru »

tkahn6 wrote: post #6
bluedanieru wrote: post #2

Michael Bloomberg might have a point, but he really isn't in a strong position to complain about shitty overpriced software. Glass houses and all that.

What position are you in to declare the Bloomberg terminal 'shitty overpriced software'?

I use it and know how much it costs?

Re: NYC mayor demands $600M refund on software project

#39

Post by emehrkay »

thematt wrote: post #8

Although New York has "received a working system that will advance our management ability ... because the project was apparently tainted by fraud and kickback schemes, the City must be made whole" ... The city is also planning to launch a request for information (RFI) process in January in search of alternative timekeeping systems. Wow. So they eventually got a working system. Now they're throwing it away and going t…

I could write one this weekend for only 3 million dollars. Somebody get me bloomberg's info

Re: NYC mayor demands $600M refund on software project

#40

Post by n-ion »

Maybe some of you know, maybe some of you don't - but the real hero here in bringing these people to justice is Juan Gonzalez http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juan_Gonzalez_(journalist) He did the reporting that led to the federal indictments. Went on to win the 2010 George Polk award for exposing them. http://www.democracynow.org/blog/2011/2/22/juan_gonzalez_win...
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