Live data from Hacker News

How to design a sailing ship for the 21st century?

lowtechmagazine.com

31–40 of 66 posts

Re: How to design a sailing ship for the 21st century?

#32

Two of the last paragraphs: > All of this is technically possible, and as we have seen, it would produce less in emissions than the present alternatives. However, it’s more likely that a switch to sailing ships is accompanied by a decrease in cargo and passenger traffic, and this has everything to do with scale and speed. A lot of freight and passengers would not be travelling if it were not for the high speeds and l…

Because the latter isn’t a sustainable solution to the problems we are facing. The environment can’t support all of the current population at any kind of modern lifestyle. Unless “changing lifestyles” is “give up all daily transportation, heating, cooling, meat, and 99 percent of electricity”, it’s not gonna cut it.

Better zoning could eliminate a huge amount of commuting emissions. A cultural shift away from in-person meetings as signalling, and travel as a substitute for personality, could eliminate a huge amount of air travel emissions. Meat consumption can be drastically reduced. The changes we need aren't actually all that big.

Re: How to design a sailing ship for the 21st century?

#33
A natural gas powered container ship would probably have lower emissions per unit of cargo moved than the proposed "eco" sailing ship, which has low cargo capacity by modern standards. The big problem with cargo ships from a pollution standpoint is that they run on really crappy "bunker oil C", which is about halfway between jet fuel and asphalt. Heavier than seawater. One of the biggest sources of preventable pollution.

And, come on, then want to haul sails by hand on a ship of that size? And use rowing machines to generate electric power? They'd need a huge crew.

Liquid natural gas carriers often run on their own natural gas. There a few natural gas powered freighters now, but they're built in the US for the run to Puerto Rico, which, under the Jones Act, is limited to American ships.

Re: How to design a sailing ship for the 21st century?

#34
post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US tried this concept at one point with the nuclear powered NS Savannah, which was a cargo/passenger ship. Unfortunately it was already outdated by the time it was built, unable to accommodate the modular containers taking over the shipping industry. It was mostly a novelty at the time and was expensive to run. Still though it seems nuclear would be a good fit for shipping. Most large ships use electric motors fo…

Large merchant ships don't use electric motors. The propeller is directly driven by a large diesel engine through a mechanical transmission because that is the cheapest and most efficient design.

They don't even use a transmission in most cases. The propeller is direct driven, the engine itself can be started in reverse to go astern.

Re: How to design a sailing ship for the 21st century?

#35
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The article essentially dismisses lithium batteries as non-sustainable.

Which is dumb, because the "saltwater" batteries have manganese cathode and titanium phosphate anode... doesn't sound radically different than lithium iron phosphate.

There were a number of fires in boats at the beginning of using lithium batteries that put off many people from using them.

Re: How to design a sailing ship for the 21st century?

#36
post #33

A natural gas powered container ship would probably have lower emissions per unit of cargo moved than the proposed "eco" sailing ship, which has low cargo capacity by modern standards. The big problem with cargo ships from a pollution standpoint is that they run on really crappy "bunker oil C", which is about halfway between jet fuel and asphalt. Heavier than seawater. One of the biggest sources of preventable pollut…

The latest ships used by CMA-CGM use LNG, and they're not planning on using heavy fuels anymore.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacques_Saad%C3%A9-class_con...

Re: How to design a sailing ship for the 21st century?

#37

Two of the last paragraphs: > All of this is technically possible, and as we have seen, it would produce less in emissions than the present alternatives. However, it’s more likely that a switch to sailing ships is accompanied by a decrease in cargo and passenger traffic, and this has everything to do with scale and speed. A lot of freight and passengers would not be travelling if it were not for the high speeds and l…

Because the latter isn’t a sustainable solution to the problems we are facing. The environment can’t support all of the current population at any kind of modern lifestyle. Unless “changing lifestyles” is “give up all daily transportation, heating, cooling, meat, and 99 percent of electricity”, it’s not gonna cut it.

I believe you are over estimating the amount of change required. Fifty years ago, or so, consumption was much lower without doing away many of those things.

Re: How to design a sailing ship for the 21st century?

#39
post #33

A natural gas powered container ship would probably have lower emissions per unit of cargo moved than the proposed "eco" sailing ship, which has low cargo capacity by modern standards. The big problem with cargo ships from a pollution standpoint is that they run on really crappy "bunker oil C", which is about halfway between jet fuel and asphalt. Heavier than seawater. One of the biggest sources of preventable pollut…

Exactly. Also, they didn't seem to mention the speed difference between typical diesel ship and their proposed "Eco" ship. If it takes a week more that might be fine, but if it takes 5 times as long no one will use it for large scale commercial goods (perhaps there is a niche for transporting "Eco" products)

Re: How to design a sailing ship for the 21st century?

#40
post #4

Make it big , get it up out of the water. The larger your ship is the more efficient it can be, and the less of it in the water the less energy is needed to push it. So make big big ships with really really big sails. You want the ships to fly with just the keel in the water to steer against the wind. You might think I'm joking or talking nonsense, but look up Alexander Bell's cellular geodesic kites, and Bucky Fulle…

Take the idea just a notch further and you've got yourself an ekranoplan.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lun-class_ekranoplan

Post reply on HN