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Massive Indestructible Botnet

computerworld.com

31–40 of 49 posts

Re: Massive Indestructible Botnet

#31

Why is anybody on Earth still using Windows?

1. Ubiquity 2. Honestly - better user experience in Windows 7 than any Linux desktop I've used, but then I go back 20 years with Windows 3. Any document-handling industry is so deeply into Word that you really won't be switching any time soon. Sad, but true.

Re: Massive Indestructible Botnet

#32
So at what point does a botnet cease to be a parasite and start to be a symbiote?

If TDL-4 keeps your machine free of other malware at the cost of engaging in the occasional DDoS....

Actually, wouldn't TDL-4's owners possibly earn more money by doing remote management and tuning of 4.5 million PCs than they could by selling malware connectivity?

Re: Massive Indestructible Botnet

#33
post #2

> TDL-4's makers created their own encryption algorithm Two comments about this -- I give it maybe a week or two against a good cryptographer. You never, ever invent your own encryption algorithm. -- Even if the encryption algorithm happens to be secure against differential/linear/slide/boomerang attacks, I bet there will be an implementation flaw. It's really hard to get implementation right on those things, even if…

I give it maybe a week or two against a good cryptographer. You never, ever invent your own encryption algorithm.

Don't rule out the possibility that the botnet code was written by a good cryptographer. It may be that they're using a well-designed algorithm that these researchers didn't happen to recognize.

Even if the encryption algorithm happens to be secure against differential/linear/slide/boomerang attacks, I bet there will be an implementation flaw. It's really hard to get implementation right on those things, even if you have an almost perfect algorithm.

Sometimes something that would be bad as a standard building block can hold up in a specific use case. Maybe this thing really only needs to obfuscate the communications.

Not that that all really matters -- anything that it's encrypted can be decrypted since they key lives on the computer -- but the fact that they created their own encryption algorithm gives some insight in to their minds. Namely, that they they they are smarter than they really are, and that despite all of that, they don't know enough about security to stick with AES.

I wouldn't underestimate the Russians and Eastern Europeans like that.

[...] Either (1) this botnet is really weak or (2) the writers of this article have distorted the truth.

Probably both, at least (2).

It's really really hard to write technically accurate descriptions of these things that are also accessible to a wide enough audience that you reach the people you need to reach.

Re: Massive Indestructible Botnet

#34
post #2

> TDL-4's makers created their own encryption algorithm Two comments about this -- I give it maybe a week or two against a good cryptographer. You never, ever invent your own encryption algorithm. -- Even if the encryption algorithm happens to be secure against differential/linear/slide/boomerang attacks, I bet there will be an implementation flaw. It's really hard to get implementation right on those things, even if…

I give it maybe a week or two against a good cryptographer. You never, ever invent your own encryption algorithm. Don't rule out the possibility that the botnet code was written by a good cryptographer. It may be that they're using a well-designed algorithm that these researchers didn't happen to recognize. Even if the encryption algorithm happens to be secure against differential/linear/slide/boomerang attacks, I be…

Has any botnet ever been written by a good cryptographer? I remember Vern Paxson getting a whole paper out of supposedly-skillful botnet authors not even being able to generate random numbers securely.

Re: Massive Indestructible Botnet

#35

TDL-4's makers use the botnet to plant additional malware on PCs Whoa, it's the evil app store! Could this be used to take the botnet down? Pay them to install something and sneak in an antidote?

Like another botnet! :-) Sometimes botnets actually will clean and patch their target machines.

Re: Massive Indestructible Botnet

#36

Why is anybody on Earth still using Windows?

Because it comes on most PCs, runs most applications, and on the whole works "good enough (TM)"

The fact that the malware has to bury itself so deep into the boot sector actually says some pretty positive things about Windows security. Nothing like those heroics would be needed to target Linux for example (I don't know about Mac).

Re: Massive Indestructible Botnet

#37
post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I give it maybe a week or two against a good cryptographer. You never, ever invent your own encryption algorithm. Don't rule out the possibility that the botnet code was written by a good cryptographer. It may be that they're using a well-designed algorithm that these researchers didn't happen to recognize. Even if the encryption algorithm happens to be secure against differential/linear/slide/boomerang attacks, I be…

Has any botnet ever been written by a good cryptographer? I remember Vern Paxson getting a whole paper out of supposedly-skillful botnet authors not even being able to generate random numbers securely.

I'm not saying that's the case here, but surely cryptographers are just as corruptible as everyone else.

There's nothing preventing a scenario where someone with nefarious intent and a large pile of money convinces a skillful cryptographer into building a cipher robust enough be resistant to cryptanalysis.

(I'm not your downvoter by the way)

Re: Massive Indestructible Botnet

#38

Why is anybody on Earth still using Windows?

As someone who jumped from Windows XP to Linux (Knoppix, Ubuntu, and Arch) and now back to Windows 7: 1) No driver issues. I've heard bad things about Nvidia Optimus drivers for Linux. 2) I don't have to worry about not being able to install software, or other compatibility issues. 3) Games (the Mac gaming situation is pathetic). 4) It doesn't force me to muck around with the system all the time. 5) Windows 7 is actually really pleasant to use - much more so than XP or OS X; out of the box, it's only a bit less pleasant than Arch after I've spent a day installing and configuring software.

My misadventures with linux include forgetting to set up a netbook to connect to unencrypted wireless networks and the latest kernel update breaking wifi after suspending or hibernating; I've never had to deal with any of that on Windows. The most time that I've spent on system administration has been switching to an SSD, which became extremely easy after I found the right software to mirror my disk.

Re: Massive Indestructible Botnet

#40
post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I give it maybe a week or two against a good cryptographer. You never, ever invent your own encryption algorithm. Don't rule out the possibility that the botnet code was written by a good cryptographer. It may be that they're using a well-designed algorithm that these researchers didn't happen to recognize. Even if the encryption algorithm happens to be secure against differential/linear/slide/boomerang attacks, I be…

Has any botnet ever been written by a good cryptographer? I remember Vern Paxson getting a whole paper out of supposedly-skillful botnet authors not even being able to generate random numbers securely.

Undoubtedly there has been, the question is whether or not it's been released from the lab.

I don't know about its cryptography specifically, but Stuxnet, for example, is a botnet regarded as a game-changer precisely because it was such a professional hit.

BTW, I'm trying to see if there's any interest in a collaboration on the cryptanalysis of this custom encryption system. Anyone with an interest please ping me. It may turn out to be nothing.

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