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Fines up to $66k or five years prison for Australians returning home from India

theguardian.com

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Re: Fines up to $66k or five years prison for Australians returning home from India

#31

Post by Aerroon »

0xfaded wrote: post #2

I'm an Australian living abroad, and from my perspective this is consistent with the government's messaging from the beginning: "come home now or be prepared to stay were you are for an extended period of time." Unfortunate as it is, Australians were told to make a decision early last year. It's ultimately unfair to other Australians who have made sacrifices to keep Australia effectively Covid free if others who deci…

Australia keeping its own citizens out is heartless. Particularly during a crisis. Governments have a responsibility before all of their citizens. The responsibility for this doesn't solely rest on the government either. In a country where the highest power is supposedly held by the people, the people also share in this responsibility. That's what citizenship is about. If the government can renege on its deal, then can citizens get out of their obligation to pay taxes too?

Are you even a citizen if you're not legally allowed to return to the country?

Re: Fines up to $66k or five years prison for Australians returning home from India

#32

Post by ceilingcorner »

0xfaded wrote: post #2

I'm an Australian living abroad, and from my perspective this is consistent with the government's messaging from the beginning: "come home now or be prepared to stay were you are for an extended period of time." Unfortunate as it is, Australians were told to make a decision early last year. It's ultimately unfair to other Australians who have made sacrifices to keep Australia effectively Covid free if others who deci…

Who cares if they are consistent? If my government tells me ahead of time that it’s going to infringe upon my rights, does that somehow make it acceptable?

Re: Fines up to $66k or five years prison for Australians returning home from India

#33

Post by ukie »

twobitshifter wrote: post #24
tinus_hn wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All very understandable but international law clearly states that you can’t prevent your own citizens from entering your country. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_of_return If Australia wants to implement quarantines, fine. If Australia wants to appear tough and make an example of people by denying them their rights, not fine.

Legally is allowing them to return and fining and imprisoning them the same as not allowing them to return?

Yes, because you're effectively being punished for exercising your right.

Re: Fines up to $66k or five years prison for Australians returning home from India

#34

Post by ceilingcorner »

It’s for reasons like this that the American tradition of defending civil liberties and the Constitution is so important. Clearly some Anglosphere countries without this tradition have no issues violating it when convenient.

To think - thrown in prison for returning to your own country. It’s completely absurd.

Re: Fines up to $66k or five years prison for Australians returning home from India

#35

Post by ceilingcorner »

fpig wrote: post #13
Closi wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Eh, I'm not entirely sure it's consistent with the spirit of citizenship though, even if it's consistent with the governments messaging. What happens if peoples visas expire? What happens if people lose their job abroad? What happens if people's home life in Australia changes, and they have to go back to care for an elderly or ill relative? Or if your father dies and someone needs to care for your mum? "Tough shit, y…

How is this even an issue? I just can’t imagine many Australians going to India to work since it’s a much poorer country. Like, it’s hard for me to believe there’s more than 100 Australians who did that. And they can easily quarantine that many people. The article makes it sound like it’s a huge number of people they’d need to build facilities for which seems super strange.

Australia is a very popular destination for Indian expats.

> At the Australian Bureau of Statistics' 2016 census, 619,164 people in Australia declared that they were of ethnic Indian ancestry.[1] This comprises 2.8% of the Australian population

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_Australians#Current_p...

Re: Fines up to $66k or five years prison for Australians returning home from India

#36

Post by [deleted] »

twobitshifter wrote: post #24
tinus_hn wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All very understandable but international law clearly states that you can’t prevent your own citizens from entering your country. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_of_return If Australia wants to implement quarantines, fine. If Australia wants to appear tough and make an example of people by denying them their rights, not fine.

Legally is allowing them to return and fining and imprisoning them the same as not allowing them to return?

[deleted]

Re: Fines up to $66k or five years prison for Australians returning home from India

#37

Post by fpig »

ceilingcorner wrote: post #35
fpig wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is this even an issue? I just can’t imagine many Australians going to India to work since it’s a much poorer country. Like, it’s hard for me to believe there’s more than 100 Australians who did that. And they can easily quarantine that many people. The article makes it sound like it’s a huge number of people they’d need to build facilities for which seems super strange.

Australia is a very popular destination for Indian expats. > At the Australian Bureau of Statistics' 2016 census, 619,164 people in Australia declared that they were of ethnic Indian ancestry.[1] This comprises 2.8% of the Australian population https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_Australians#Current_p...

I'm just going to respond to this comment since all are saying the same thing basically - the comment I replied to was implying something else, that Australians are working in India and weren't able to return when the government demanded it because they would have lost their jobs in India, which sounds like a legitimate reason to refuse to return, but also sounds like a group of people that's likely mostly imaginary.

I'm sure there's a bunch of Australians going to India for all kinds of reasons, I didn't mean to imply people from Australia never travel to India in general, but people who were visiting India could have returned when the government warned them to do so, and I assume the vast majority did, apart from covid-denying "you can't tell me what to do" types which I have little sympathy for.

Re: Fines up to $66k or five years prison for Australians returning home from India

#38

Post by tinus_hn »

publicola1990 wrote: post #25
tinus_hn wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All very understandable but international law clearly states that you can’t prevent your own citizens from entering your country. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_of_return If Australia wants to implement quarantines, fine. If Australia wants to appear tough and make an example of people by denying them their rights, not fine.

I remember India itself violating this as part of pandemic related restrictions last year, when they tried to restrict entry of Indians who were abroad back to India.

The problem with international law is of course that there is no way to enforce it, the states are sovereign. But a state can’t violate them too egregiously and still pretend to be a first world lawful state.

Re: Fines up to $66k or five years prison for Australians returning home from India

#39

Post by [deleted] »

fpig wrote: post #13
Closi wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Eh, I'm not entirely sure it's consistent with the spirit of citizenship though, even if it's consistent with the governments messaging. What happens if peoples visas expire? What happens if people lose their job abroad? What happens if people's home life in Australia changes, and they have to go back to care for an elderly or ill relative? Or if your father dies and someone needs to care for your mum? "Tough shit, y…

How is this even an issue? I just can’t imagine many Australians going to India to work since it’s a much poorer country. Like, it’s hard for me to believe there’s more than 100 Australians who did that. And they can easily quarantine that many people. The article makes it sound like it’s a huge number of people they’d need to build facilities for which seems super strange.

[deleted]
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