I woke up during a procedure as a kid. I do have a faint memory of it, though no trauma (as far as I can tell) and I do not remember having any pain. Basically the doctors just gave me more anesthesia and I went back under.
Waking Up During Surgery (2019)
31–40 of 111 posts
Re: Waking Up During Surgery (2019)
#32Earlier quoted context omitted.
They went on to describe the forearm experiment which showed a much higher rate of awareness. I don’t see why you’ve chosen to omit that. You seem to casually discard the idea that awareness without memory is irrelevant, but when I’ve informed patients of amnestics they’ve been horrified - maybe needlessly so, but I’m not so arrogant as to think “silly patient, your horror is wrong and therefore irrelevant.” Many peo…
> Many people don’t regard “you’ll be in pain and then forget” as the same as “no pain.” I find this incredibly fascinating. If people were to be offered a sum of money in exchange for feeling immense pain for an hour but then having that memory wiped, I wonder how many would shrug and say "I won't remember anything? Sure, sign me up." I wonder at the ethical and morality of such things. If the person's reality is ba…
Statistics on women who choose a "no painkiller" second childbirth after doing so the first time might exist.
Re: Waking Up During Surgery (2019)
#33Wow, this lady has 2 to 3 nightmares per night even ten years later, after an exploratory surgery? That's pretty extreme, I think most people wouldn't have had 6 to 8 thousand nightmares about this experience.
Re: Waking Up During Surgery (2019)
#34Just an anecdote: I once had a procedure that required I be under a "light" general anesthesia (don't recall which). I was generally paranoid at the time though about everything, and strapped an audio recorder to my leg secretly. Turns out I did wake up mid procedure (the audio suggests doctor and nurse rushed to stop me from touching the area of operation of my face, and that I was distressed) but as the doctor prom…
I recall hearing about this phenomenon about a decade ago, and at the time someone theorized that the specific memory may be lost but the effects were still present, and that these effects could cause general anxiety and distress without the person understanding the reasoning. I think it is perhaps more philosophical than rational, but it did give me pause to consider that perhaps not everyone forgets enough of a surgery to escape its effects, even in the best of circumstances.
Re: Waking Up During Surgery (2019)
#35Okay this is an interesting article and an interesting subject. But, it looks a lot like fear-mongering. I feel strongly about this because I had two procedures done under local for fear of exactly this situation (coming up but being sedated) and both experiences where tough . > Founded in 2007, it has now collected more than 340 reports So 24 self-reported cases a year in all of N America. There are 48 million in pa…
I have had several surgeries with everything from a light to general anesthetic. I warn the nurses and doctor beforehand that I have a history of waking and remember previous operations. Most do not believe me. I remember the sound of my wisdom teeth being cracked open and opening my eyes while they were being cut out. I remember scaring the shit out of a nurse and doctor when I woke and started talking mid-procedure. I remember being held down when I kept trying to roll onto my side as if I were asleep. Typically, the reaction is something like "he is awake" followed by a flurry of action, then sleep. I don't know why this happens-- I suspect something makes the anesthesia wear off faster than normal. I also have an issue at the dentist with numbing-- they usually have to hit me twice. If that doesn't work fully, I just tell him to go ahead and I will deal with it.
Re: Waking Up During Surgery (2019)
#36"This all makes anaesthesia as much art as science" This is one of the most important parts of the piece. It is something that most people out side of healthcare are not aware. Anaesthesia is very much an art. Anaesthesia is unlike other medications, "take xx mg over yy days." Anaesthesia effects can vary wildly from person to person. Weight plays a big role, but so does bed position, condition, sex, body part etc. T…
That's really the case for medication, as well. I wish doctors would be better in this regard and pay more attention to individual needs. I understand that would be more difficult and would likely increase costs, but still.
The way it's done now is as you said, "take x mg at y interval" based on the tests done during drug development. If you don't respond to the medication the same way as the majority, you're in for a ride. If x drug doesn't work, try something else until something works. It's a pretty terrible approach, tbh.
It's rare to find a doctor who will keep in mind the many individual factors, often they have a lot of experience (to build that database of knowledge, which sadly is not shared) and actual interest in their work, a surprisingly rare thing.
Re: Waking Up During Surgery (2019)
#37Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Many people don’t regard “you’ll be in pain and then forget” as the same as “no pain.” I find this incredibly fascinating. If people were to be offered a sum of money in exchange for feeling immense pain for an hour but then having that memory wiped, I wonder how many would shrug and say "I won't remember anything? Sure, sign me up." I wonder at the ethical and morality of such things. If the person's reality is ba…
Statistics on women who choose a "no painkiller" second childbirth after doing so the first time might exist.
That might be an aversion to using painkillers again after experiencing awful side-effects in the first delivery.
Re: Waking Up During Surgery (2019)
#38Earlier quoted context omitted.
They went on to describe the forearm experiment which showed a much higher rate of awareness. I don’t see why you’ve chosen to omit that. You seem to casually discard the idea that awareness without memory is irrelevant, but when I’ve informed patients of amnestics they’ve been horrified - maybe needlessly so, but I’m not so arrogant as to think “silly patient, your horror is wrong and therefore irrelevant.” Many peo…
> Many people don’t regard “you’ll be in pain and then forget” as the same as “no pain.” I find this incredibly fascinating. If people were to be offered a sum of money in exchange for feeling immense pain for an hour but then having that memory wiped, I wonder how many would shrug and say "I won't remember anything? Sure, sign me up." I wonder at the ethical and morality of such things. If the person's reality is ba…
The lingering physical effects of a body experiencing trauma for that amount of time might be too damaging for some to be willing to accept amnesia as a panacea.
Re: Waking Up During Surgery (2019)
#39Just an anecdote: I once had a procedure that required I be under a "light" general anesthesia (don't recall which). I was generally paranoid at the time though about everything, and strapped an audio recorder to my leg secretly. Turns out I did wake up mid procedure (the audio suggests doctor and nurse rushed to stop me from touching the area of operation of my face, and that I was distressed) but as the doctor prom…
I wonder if the journalist is asking the wrong people.
Instead of interviewing patients supposed to be under drug-induced amnesia, and finding the few who remembered, ask the doctors and nurses who are being asked to restrain patients in distress. A specialist in a procedure that requires light general anesthesia would, if this was true, have done surgery on thousands of people in various degrees of distress.
To me, that would be a pretty heavy secret to carry, and a 'conspiracy' that large would be impossible to conceal. I do agree, though, that pain without memory is pretty much as good as no pain. When you're conscious but unable to remember being conscious, are you still capable of suffering?
Re: Waking Up During Surgery (2019)
#40Earlier quoted context omitted.
They went on to describe the forearm experiment which showed a much higher rate of awareness. I don’t see why you’ve chosen to omit that. You seem to casually discard the idea that awareness without memory is irrelevant, but when I’ve informed patients of amnestics they’ve been horrified - maybe needlessly so, but I’m not so arrogant as to think “silly patient, your horror is wrong and therefore irrelevant.” Many peo…
> Many people don’t regard “you’ll be in pain and then forget” as the same as “no pain.” I find this incredibly fascinating. If people were to be offered a sum of money in exchange for feeling immense pain for an hour but then having that memory wiped, I wonder how many would shrug and say "I won't remember anything? Sure, sign me up." I wonder at the ethical and morality of such things. If the person's reality is ba…
There might also be a difference between a) You will be in pain for an hour, remembering the whole thing, and at the end of that hour, your memory will be wiped; and b) You will be in pain for an hour, but you will not form any memory of any part of that hour in the first place. It's the difference between saving data to a huge file and then deleting it, versus piping the data to /dev/null as it comes in. AFAIK amnestic drugs are intended to be closer to the second method.