Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

India’s second wave

ft.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

31–40 of 477 posts

Re: India’s second wave

#31

Post by Deukhoofd »

kjakm wrote: post #17
throwaway4good wrote: post #6

It is sadly predictable that the pandemic would end up becoming a permanent source of havoc in less developed part of the world, even as it comes under control in the west. This will for certain be with us for many years to come and will further distort the difference between rich and poor. Not at least helped by the nationalism in the west in form of export controls and patents.

It's not exactly under control in the west yet either. Mainland Europe seems to be going through a pretty serious third wave.

Third wave? The Netherlands never really left the second one.

Re: India’s second wave

#33

Post by Hiopl »

mulvya wrote: post #21
Hiopl wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's always been the biggest fear with Covid, so that's not unexpected. Long ICU durations, lack of sufficient ICU spots and staff, high infection rate, low case fatality rate still means it can quickly overwhelm hospitals and lead to much higher rates of death overall. People crying "it's just a flu" were always missing the point.

But there is another factor, only recently mentioned in Indian media. The fear factor causes many of those with means to insist on hospitalization. This article talks about it in the context of celebs [1] but I've seen it among my relatives as well where healthy young adults with moderate/high Ct values are admitted on insistence of their parents or themselves. I read similar reporting about self-arranged oxygen use…

That's interesting, thanks. Makes me wonder how widespread it is, but when spots are scarce and every bed counts, it's awful all the same.

Also ties back into the idea that governments need to act earlier than might seem necessary.

Re: India’s second wave

#34

Post by corty »

_djo_ wrote: post #29
corty wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, a source of havoc, maybe. But one among many, there is still Malaria, Tuberculosis, Dengue Fever, Ebola, HIV. All with far more significant consequences. That we are worrying as much about Corona as we do in the West is a consequence of those ailments being (mostly) irrelevant here.

This is inaccurate. COVID-19 has been far deadlier than any of those already-devastating existing diseases and conditions in places like India, South Africa, and Brazil. In South Africa for instance, COVID-19 killed more people in 2020 than HIV/AIDS or TB.

That those diseases have a lower death-count today is a consequence of the havoc they have brought historically and of the current disruption they cause in isolating the infected, vaccinations, necessary medications and hospital beds, etc.

In all likelyhood COVID-19 will go the way of the spanish flu (with or without vaccination only changes the time it takes) and become less of a problem due to partial immunity in the population. Most children will get it once, after which any reinfection by a similar strain will be mostly harmless.

So COVID-19 will maybe continue to be a problem for 3 or 4 years, but after that we will still be stuck with HIV, TB and others, where the outlook is not so rosy.

Re: India’s second wave

#35

Post by drsim »

kjakm wrote: post #17
throwaway4good wrote: post #6

It is sadly predictable that the pandemic would end up becoming a permanent source of havoc in less developed part of the world, even as it comes under control in the west. This will for certain be with us for many years to come and will further distort the difference between rich and poor. Not at least helped by the nationalism in the west in form of export controls and patents.

It's not exactly under control in the west yet either. Mainland Europe seems to be going through a pretty serious third wave.

With the borders shut, all European countries are experiencing it quite differently. Here in Denmark we dodged the third wave and are now easing restrictions.

Re: India’s second wave

#36

Post by esperent »

throwaway4good wrote: post #6

It is sadly predictable that the pandemic would end up becoming a permanent source of havoc in less developed part of the world, even as it comes under control in the west. This will for certain be with us for many years to come and will further distort the difference between rich and poor. Not at least helped by the nationalism in the west in form of export controls and patents.

I live in a less developed part of the world - Vietnam - and the government and people have been incredibly successful in controlling the virus here. Aside from two short lockdowns of a couple of weeks, my life has barely been affected (except for the lack of tourists and the fact I can't travel outside the country). Local tourism and business seems to be booming. Meanwhile I hear all the stories from back home in Europe, and from the US... And my sympathies go out to everyone living though that. But I don't the development level of a country has much at all to do with how well it's handling this pandemic.

The only frustrating thing is how clearly it's been highlighted that the rich and powerful countries get all the vaccines and we'll only get them here once everyone in the west has been vaccinated three times over.

Re: India’s second wave

#37

Post by Clewza313 »

_djo_ wrote: post #29
corty wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, a source of havoc, maybe. But one among many, there is still Malaria, Tuberculosis, Dengue Fever, Ebola, HIV. All with far more significant consequences. That we are worrying as much about Corona as we do in the West is a consequence of those ailments being (mostly) irrelevant here.

This is inaccurate. COVID-19 has been far deadlier than any of those already-devastating existing diseases and conditions in places like India, South Africa, and Brazil. In South Africa for instance, COVID-19 killed more people in 2020 than HIV/AIDS or TB.

HIV, malaria, and many other diseases endemic to the third world target people in the prime of life, wreaking havoc on families. By contrast, most (not all, but most) deaths from COVID are the elderly.

Any mention of this tends to bring on "how dare you say one life is more valuable than another" downvotes, but since this thread is considering economic impact, it's a relevant factor.

Re: India’s second wave

#38

Post by makomk »

throwaway4good wrote: post #6

It is sadly predictable that the pandemic would end up becoming a permanent source of havoc in less developed part of the world, even as it comes under control in the west. This will for certain be with us for many years to come and will further distort the difference between rich and poor. Not at least helped by the nationalism in the west in form of export controls and patents.

India is actually one of the countries imposing export controls on vaccines in order to redirect them to domestic use, with the result that a lot of other developing countries don't have any at all...

Re: India’s second wave

#39

Post by bellyfullofbac »

qart wrote: post #25

Lockdowns hurt poor people very badly; they need to earn to survive. All the more reason everyone should mask up. And yet, most people stopped masking months ago. Crowds are as bad as they were in 2019. On top of that, doctors here have created a craze for remdesivir, resulting in a blackmarket for it. The central and state governments have mismanaged plenty of things. While they deserve their share of blame, the ord…

I wish people gave a bit more shit about protecting themselves properly, I see too many half-assed mask wearing (with the nose out) around. Or people thinking being masked means they can just hover near others.

I also wish that governments try to inform more, I don't really see anyone saying "Ventilate more!" like this research results suggest they should: https://english.elpais.com/society/2020-10-28/a-room-a-bar-a... .

Re: India’s second wave

#40

Post by Clewza313 »

mulvya wrote: post #21
Hiopl wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's always been the biggest fear with Covid, so that's not unexpected. Long ICU durations, lack of sufficient ICU spots and staff, high infection rate, low case fatality rate still means it can quickly overwhelm hospitals and lead to much higher rates of death overall. People crying "it's just a flu" were always missing the point.

But there is another factor, only recently mentioned in Indian media. The fear factor causes many of those with means to insist on hospitalization. This article talks about it in the context of celebs [1] but I've seen it among my relatives as well where healthy young adults with moderate/high Ct values are admitted on insistence of their parents or themselves. I read similar reporting about self-arranged oxygen use…

Which is a bit odd, since outside a few elite private institutions, Indian hospitals are dire and the same media regularly carries horror stories of rooms full of corpses etc.
Post reply on HN