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Pictures reveal the isolated lives of Japan’s social recluses (2018)

nationalgeographic.com

31–40 of 83 posts

Re: Pictures reveal the isolated lives of Japan’s social recluses (2018)

#31
post #8

"According to him, he is a great man and could do extraordinary things, but he does not always try his best" This is right here probably a major explanation for the whole phenomena. I have seen this exact attitude with individuals who are in their 30s and living with their parents. Something in their upbringing gave them this immense sense of worth but the world isn't rewarding them for the little work they do as muc…

>immense sense of worth

Not necessarily sense of worth, I would argue. I doubt that it's the first time in history when parents told their children that they are very beautiful and smart, much better than anyone else.

IMHO cushion of enough wealth to allow a lifestyle of "prefer not to" combined with lowered expectations of the life is a total destroyer. Many people in developed countries can choose not to face the difficulties of the life and be entertained and fed through their adulthood.

If it's hard for you to face rejection or go through social situation there's enough infrastructure to let you live your life in a room. You may or may not have income if you don't have to pay rent, staying alive is extremely cheap so your parents can take care of you with almost no impact on their budget. You can also do some remote work that requires only tech literacy.

I myself had periods of "going back to parents home" when I was feeling "No expectations form my life but not interested in dying". What worked for me was forcing myself out of my comfort zone through changing cities/countries with no enough fund to sustain that kind of lifestyle.

It worked well for me 3 times so far. The state of "living in your room" is easy thanks to the internet, I don't remember getting bored because my schedule was always full with "projects", TV series, games and online discussions(forums->facebook->Digg->reddit). You notice the toll on your body and you disconnect at some point when your peers move on with their phase in their lives.

I'm not exactly an introvert(I simply need time alone too), I actually enjoy the company of people and what works for me is re-inventing myself somewhere else and meet completely new people. That's the phase I feel alive instead of content, suddenly I feel like I have a purpose(because I actually do have a purpose. I'm doing rebuild from scratch and there's plenty of stuff to do). At some point the things stabilize and I start feeling like disconnecting from the society for a while.

I just wonder why these other people don't seem to break their stay in the room period. The world is full of opportunities and it's actually very friendly place overall. The flaming extraverts are cool too.

I have a hypothesis for this too. One thing I noticed about my "live in the room phase" peers is that they tend to deny observations, they are extremist in their lifestyles and fight to the bitter end any evidence that another way of life is possible and it's within their reach. They are extremely cynical towards the outside world. I think this is required because, to maintain inaction you need to have a gap between what's possible and what you can do. If you accept that the world is full of opportunities, the only way to have a gap preventing you from picking these opportunities is to have low abilities. So yes, it does have a component of self worth.

Re: Pictures reveal the isolated lives of Japan’s social recluses (2018)

#32
post #21

The basic needs of a man until his late 30s are quite straightforward. If there is no chance for sex, and professional endeavours deliver more stress than anything else, then why bother with the rest? Saying this from completely different perspective - of a native citizen of less developed EU country, the pandemic measures and shutdowns almost haven't changed my lifestyle.

If those are the only things that makes someone happy (it's not necessarily; all people are different, but let's say those are the basic needs at work here), and they aren't getting either of those things, then they can either give up become shut-ins and stay on that trajectory, or they can do everything they can to figure out how become the kind of person they want to be, or at least become a happier or wiser person…

Saying someone is responsible for themselves really doesn't help them. It's like telling a depressed person that they should be happy.

They need help. Because in the end, we're all interdependent and dependent on each other.

I had to tell myself that I am the hero or villain of my own story after some help. Still, it's an absolutely painful journey sometime.

Re: Pictures reveal the isolated lives of Japan’s social recluses (2018)

#33
This seems like a phenomenon beneath the same umbrella as the NEETs and incels of the western world. A difference, though, is that in all the presentations of hikikomori I've seen, they lack the same toxicity and anger at the outside world, even though their situation is a similar manifestation of broken confidence, extreme social anxiety, so on.

I wonder if this is true, or if there's a darker side to the hikikomori that we just don't see as much of.

Re: Pictures reveal the isolated lives of Japan’s social recluses (2018)

#34
post #21

The basic needs of a man until his late 30s are quite straightforward. If there is no chance for sex, and professional endeavours deliver more stress than anything else, then why bother with the rest? Saying this from completely different perspective - of a native citizen of less developed EU country, the pandemic measures and shutdowns almost haven't changed my lifestyle.

If those are the only things that makes someone happy (it's not necessarily; all people are different, but let's say those are the basic needs at work here), and they aren't getting either of those things, then they can either give up become shut-ins and stay on that trajectory, or they can do everything they can to figure out how become the kind of person they want to be, or at least become a happier or wiser person…

The article's description of cultural pressures on young men seems crushing. One must work obscene hours, never lose face, represent the family at all times, and support a family on one salary.

Re: Pictures reveal the isolated lives of Japan’s social recluses (2018)

#35

I’m glad the article mostly restrains itself from the “wacky Japan” angle, and states pretty flat out that a “rental sister” is pretty analogous to the role of a social worker. It’s weird that people marvel over “host” and “hostess” clubs in Japan, when I know of many restaurants in the US and Canada, where the main draw is that a pretty girl/guy will be nice to you for your time there. Is it the exact same thing? No…

Cont.

My theory is that we go through this little dance because we can’t stand to admit that there’s anything structurally wrong with our society. If people feel lonely, or unsupported by their community, then well, it just means they’re broken, and should go through years of expensive and intensive therapy. Otherwise, just deal with it and get back to work.

I’m not saying we all need to join communes or anything, but explicit recognition of the problem at hand would go a long way I think.

Re: Pictures reveal the isolated lives of Japan’s social recluses (2018)

#39
post #29
post #3

It's a bit interesting that people see this as something that needs "fixing". Is it because it's a psychological disorder? Is it because the parents don't want the financial burden? The pandemic has certainly recently shown me the upsides of withdrawing totally from society. It's not for me (I'm antisocial, not asocial) but I can see why some would prefer it.

Up until approximately 100-200 years ago (99.999% of humanity’s existence) it was a possibility in most of the world to retreat into complete wilderness and live as a hermit. Now there’s nowhere left to go. We have wilderness but it is owned. We have recluses but they have SSNs and tax burdens and fingerprints. A person who becomes detached from society is put in a mental institution. The result is a kind of cultural…

Urban centers without enough green space can be incompatible with solitude 24/7. Too expensive without roommates, no where outside without other people nearby, possibly only a bathroom or small bedroom without another person in it.

Re: Pictures reveal the isolated lives of Japan’s social recluses (2018)

#40
post #24
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe there’s research in the social sciences that show that social contact and connections have a very positive impact on people’s health. Of course, such studies measure the average so each individual’s situation may be different. But it’s also not clear to me why it would be different for such large of a group.

I've always wondered if you were a recluse but had an excellent diet/fitness routine that the social contact benefits for health would not matter anymore. It's actually the best possible scenario for getting extremely fit because you don't have a job or social obligations.

Yeah you have all the time to sleep well, prepare food and eat healthy, hydrate, stretch and excercise, work on any stimulating however trivial personal projects. What you leave behind is the stress coming from a job, miserable dates and rejections, and any stress related health problems which later on one is desperately tring to resolve with doctors and medical procedures.
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