Why most non-fiction authors don't make any money • Hacker News Board

Re: Why most non-fiction authors don't make any money

#31

Post by SunlightEdge » Sat, Apr 17, 2021, 9:48 PM UTC

Unfortunately most writers of fiction make next to nothing too. Writers often are not happy writing either (unlike painters and video artists who seem to have a whale of a time).

Sadly I toiled for 8 years on a novel (while working a day job). It was a massive effort.

It might be hard for people to understand but I felt I had to write it (i.e. writers curse).

I wish I had spent all that time on studying programming etc. Unfortunately humans are not fully rational. I actually like my novel. But it wasn't worth it.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Can-Get-Restart-Jack-Gowan-ebook/dp...

But hey that's life. Shrug.

Writers should just write for the pleasure of writing and expect that the majority won't make it. It's about as likely as winning the lottery

Re: Why most non-fiction authors don't make any money

#32

Post by krmmalik » Sat, Apr 17, 2021, 9:51 PM UTC

UperSpaceGuru wrote: post #28

krmmalik wrote: post #26

I'm an author of a non-fiction book. I self-published. My book has a 5-star rating to date even though it was published nearly 5 years ago. My book meets most of the criteria laid out in this book. I even had both a publisher and distributor approach me and I had plenty leverage. Despite all that, I didn't get the book sales I wanted nor the PR. Everyone that reads my book is surprised to hear it's not topping the ch…

I just bought your book based on the post above. Maybe it’s marketing? Your book is also aimed a small niche(I’m on your target market!), maybe that’s it?

That's hilarious. Enjoy the book :)

Marketing requires a huge budget in the VC age since you're competing with ever increasing ad prices. I have spent a lot of money on advertising regardless.

One thing that has been a major sticking point for me however, ist hat distribution has been a huge issue. I wouldn't say my target market is that small. Most of the Middle East and Asia is quite ripe for my book but amazon doest operate it's self-publishing arm out there and the alternatives have not been that enticing.

Re: Why most non-fiction authors don't make any money

#33

Post by kjksf » Sat, Apr 17, 2021, 9:56 PM UTC

krmmalik wrote: post #26

I'm an author of a non-fiction book. I self-published. My book has a 5-star rating to date even though it was published nearly 5 years ago. My book meets most of the criteria laid out in this book. I even had both a publisher and distributor approach me and I had plenty leverage. Despite all that, I didn't get the book sales I wanted nor the PR. Everyone that reads my book is surprised to hear it's not topping the ch…

Does it, though?

I assume you mean "Billion Dollar Muslim: Why We Need Spiritually Inspired Entrepreneurs".

It clearly makes mistake #3: "writing broadly about the topic instead of making a clear promise about what the reader will get out of it".

What is "clear promise about what the reader will get out of it" in "Billion Dollar Muslim"?

Frankly, based on the title I don't see why I should read it, even if I'm somewhat interested in entrepreneurship.

"Why We Need Spiritually Inspired Entrepreneurs" never occurred to me as a question worth answering. Not the way "how to increase sales?" is a question I might be interested in knowing the answer to.

BTW: you website has expired SSL certificate so the main source of promoting your book is as good as gone.

Re: Why most non-fiction authors don't make any money

#34

Post by ed25519FUUU » Sat, Apr 17, 2021, 9:59 PM UTC

WalterBright wrote: post #12

ed25519FUUU wrote: post #6

It seems to me that virtually everyone going into the creative fields (art, music, writing, acting) should enter that field without any expectation to make a living from it. We pay other people to do things that aren’t fun for us, not the other way around.

Fortunately for me, writing compilers is fun.

Doing something that’s fun and hard.

Re: Why most non-fiction authors don't make any money

#35

Post by kjksf » Sat, Apr 17, 2021, 10:02 PM UTC

krmmalik wrote: post #32

UperSpaceGuru wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just bought your book based on the post above. Maybe it’s marketing? Your book is also aimed a small niche(I’m on your target market!), maybe that’s it?

That's hilarious. Enjoy the book :) Marketing requires a huge budget in the VC age since you're competing with ever increasing ad prices. I have spent a lot of money on advertising regardless. One thing that has been a major sticking point for me however, ist hat distribution has been a huge issue. I wouldn't say my target market is that small. Most of the Middle East and Asia is quite ripe for my book but amazon doe…

> Marketing requires a huge budget in the VC ag

And yet the free source of marketing (your twitter account) doesn't have a link to the book.

Neither does your HN bio.

Your website is broken (expired SSL certificate).

As far as I can tell you don't have a single page that tries to sell the book. A link to amazon is a bare minimum.

https://writeusefulbooks.com/ is an example of a master class of marketing a book. It describes what the book is about and why one should buy it. It established the author as successful writer and therefore authority on the subject.

He also wrote an article good enough to hit HN and be a driver to the website. That required 0 budget.

Maybe your failure at marketing are a result of you being bad at it, not a universal truth that you can only be successful with "huge budget".

Re: Why most non-fiction authors don't make any money

#36

Post by gbourne » Sat, Apr 17, 2021, 10:05 PM UTC

I got a publishing contract with a larger publisher to write a book on Agile (10 years ago, didn't end up publishing, long story).

I know that amazing feeling the author mentions of getting a "yes", while totally ignoring that at best I was going to make pennies. If I recall it was 10% after all publishing costs were paid for. However, I had a full time job, so this was for-the-love-of-it rather than as a real source of income.

Re: Why most non-fiction authors don't make any money

#37

Post by yesenadam » Sat, Apr 17, 2021, 10:08 PM UTC

kjksf wrote: post #33

krmmalik wrote: post #26

I'm an author of a non-fiction book. I self-published. My book has a 5-star rating to date even though it was published nearly 5 years ago. My book meets most of the criteria laid out in this book. I even had both a publisher and distributor approach me and I had plenty leverage. Despite all that, I didn't get the book sales I wanted nor the PR. Everyone that reads my book is surprised to hear it's not topping the ch…

Does it, though? I assume you mean "Billion Dollar Muslim: Why We Need Spiritually Inspired Entrepreneurs". It clearly makes mistake #3: "writing broadly about the topic instead of making a clear promise about what the reader will get out of it". What is "clear promise about what the reader will get out of it" in "Billion Dollar Muslim"? Frankly, based on the title I don't see why I should read it, even if I'm somewh…

> What is "clear promise about what the reader will get out of it" in "Billion Dollar Muslim"?

Uh, it promises to explain Why We Need Spiritually Inspired Entrepreneurs.

I don't think the book needs to appeal to you to count as a clear promise the reader will get something out of it! You could object in the same way to a book called "How to Draw in Charcoal", how "Frankly, based on the title I don't see why I should read it".

Re: Why most non-fiction authors don't make any money

#38

Post by [deleted] » Sat, Apr 17, 2021, 10:09 PM UTC

krmmalik wrote: post #26

I'm an author of a non-fiction book. I self-published. My book has a 5-star rating to date even though it was published nearly 5 years ago. My book meets most of the criteria laid out in this book. I even had both a publisher and distributor approach me and I had plenty leverage. Despite all that, I didn't get the book sales I wanted nor the PR. Everyone that reads my book is surprised to hear it's not topping the ch…

[deleted]

Re: Why most non-fiction authors don't make any money

#39

Post by Multiplayer » Sat, Apr 17, 2021, 10:11 PM UTC

101008 wrote: post #23

Finnucane wrote: post #19

He doesn't seem to understand what a royalty is. He quotes himself saying "To compensate for their 85% share of the royalties, a publisher needs to sell at least 5x more copies for you to break even [compared to self-publishing]." As the lady on the tv says, that's not how any of this works. In trade publishing at least, the author's royalty is a percentage of the cover price of the book. In normal retail selling, th…

As a publisher author of a non-fiction book with an established publisher, I had to stop reading after that first point because he is completely wrong.

I think it makes sense. He's saying that if you get a 15% royalty, vs the 100% royalty minus costs of self publishing, you need to sell 5x more books via the publisher.

It's oddly worded, but the math roughly works depending on your self publishing costs.

Re: Why most non-fiction authors don't make any money

#40

Post by joe_the_user » Sat, Apr 17, 2021, 10:11 PM UTC

DubiousPusher wrote: post #27

> It’s because Hemingway’s Boat is broadly “about” a topic, whereas The War of Art promises—and delivers—an outcome. I certaintly don't know a damn thing about selling books. But I am an avid reader of nonfiction and this is exactly the opposite of how I shop for books myself. Other than the odd "how-to", I'm skeptical of any book promising me anything other than the author's diligent study and incisive distillation…

There are so many issues in all this. I think most self-help and how-to-be-an-entrepreneur books target people who don't read much. On the one hand, it's the bigger market! on the other hand, they don't read much.

These days, most or a large portion of books that have involve substance and research written by academics, who probably would like the books to make money but are OK with them not making money 'cause they still get fame and possibly academic kudos. Of course, there are professional researchers and writers who make a living publishing but they have their substance, they have their niche and they need only very specific advice as opposed to the (apparently confused) generalities of the article.

And thing the author of this website is he seems to aim to sell a book about getting rich writing books and those books would have to be about getting rich too. It's more a multilevel marketing scheme - which doesn't mean someone won't rich here but the entire enterprise is grim and not something I'd want to read about - well, Barbara Ehrenreich's Bait And Switch is somewhat interesting. But still.