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How to fight back against Google FLoC

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Re: How to fight back against Google FLoC

#31

Post by o_m »

eterevsky wrote: post #2

While I do understand that some people may not like it, I don't see how FLoC is particularly harmful. I've read several articles about it, and most of them just say something like "you are being put in a advertising cohort -- see how creepy it is", which doesn't really prove anything. One more specific argument against FLoC is that it will make help tracking users via fingerprinting. I don't really buy it. First of a…

It can be a death sentence in countries where homosexuality is illegal. Say you are FLoC branded as being LGBT (sort of like the pink triangle in nazi concentration camps) and you visit a government website, they will know about your sexuality and can arrest you.

Re: How to fight back against Google FLoC

#32

Post by Ardren »

mavhc wrote: post #27

"The web as we know it is evolving. Apple is pushing a privacy-first approach from its operating systems and Safari" Is that the Apple that uploads the MAC addresses of every device on your LAN and your GPS location without telling anyone?

I don't know, is this the same Apple that uploads the hash of every program you execute?

https://lapcatsoftware.com/articles/catalina-executables.htm...

Re: How to fight back against Google FLoC

#33

Post by blue_box »

robertlagrant wrote: post #29

> FLoC seems to be Google’s way of saving a dying business. ... > We need to ban targeted advertising to truly have a privacy-first web. Why ban it when it's a dying business?

It is dying and this is the way how Google is going to save it. If we ban, it will die.

Re: How to fight back against Google FLoC

#34

Post by [deleted] »

ranguna wrote: post #24
kemonocode wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> While I do understand that some people may not like it, I don't see how FLoC is particularly harmful. Sure, I can give an example: it goes beyond simple basic fingerprinting, it allows you to be associated with a group of "others" (your cohort) in ways that can be dangerous to you. Suppose you live in a country where you may not enjoy certain freedoms or some behaviors may be outlawed; end up in the wrong cohort(s)…

> state actor will be able to know these things rather easily But state actors won't be able identity me individually, so I don't see the harm either. And you can actually reset you FLoC id at any time. I think advertisers (like Facebook) know that this will damage their revenue and doing mass brain wash to make people think this is harmful for everyone (Cambridge Analytica style).

[deleted]

Re: How to fight back against Google FLoC

#35

Post by frombody »

notum wrote: post #9

Would I be terribly downvoted if I said that I prefer targeted ads? I'd rather see GPUs than feminine hygiene products. FLoC seems like a method of saving my preferences locally, which is fine. I'm not interested. I won't use Google's browsers and I'll continue to filter my traffic. Internet privacy will always be an uphill battle, there's worse things going on, starting with centralized and monopolized DNS, I feel w…

I would be fine with this feature if it were opt-in (perhaps on install), and clearly explained.

Re: How to fight back against Google FLoC

#36

Post by usgroup »

Frankly I’m not sure I see a world where Internet advertising is not targeted . Sure it drives profit for Google et al but it does so because it drives profit for a million other businesses. It’s non existence implies a substantial economic cost.

I’d like to see more written and more popularly known about effective, targeted but privacy respecting ad models. Then a good argument would be “why FloC when X is possible?”

To me FloC looks like an attempt at a compromise. Whether we like the world we have or not, there is no going back to the “good old days”.

Re: How to fight back against Google FLoC

#37

Post by berkes »

sanxiyn wrote: post #12

I want to suggest another thing we can collaborate on. File bugs against Apache and nginx such that Apache and nginx emit Permission-Policy header by default. People who want FloC can opt-in, but since Pervasive Monitoring Is an Attack (RFC 7258), it is clearly severe security bugs in Apache and nginx that they don't emit this header by default. This may need CVE.

If your webserver security relies on sending a header to clients, your security is wrong.

Not saying that filing issues against weservers is a bad idea.

Just that the security angle is wrong.

For one, because Google, or chrome, could just choose to ignore that header if too many servers fly it.

Re: How to fight back against Google FLoC

#38

Post by aww_dang »

ranguna wrote: post #24
kemonocode wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> While I do understand that some people may not like it, I don't see how FLoC is particularly harmful. Sure, I can give an example: it goes beyond simple basic fingerprinting, it allows you to be associated with a group of "others" (your cohort) in ways that can be dangerous to you. Suppose you live in a country where you may not enjoy certain freedoms or some behaviors may be outlawed; end up in the wrong cohort(s)…

> state actor will be able to know these things rather easily But state actors won't be able identity me individually, so I don't see the harm either. And you can actually reset you FLoC id at any time. I think advertisers (like Facebook) know that this will damage their revenue and doing mass brain wash to make people think this is harmful for everyone (Cambridge Analytica style).

https://web.dev/floc/

Replace "hiking boots" with "dissent" in this example.

Re: How to fight back against Google FLoC

#39

Post by why_Mr_Anderson »

andrei_says_ wrote: post #18
sanxiyn wrote: post #8

I want to suggest another thing you can do as a web developer. If you can afford it, block all Chrome users, and instruct users to download Firefox instead. Explain why your website is not available for Chrome.

Maybe notify instead of block? “You are using Chrome which tracks you without consent. Download a spyware-free browser here.” In red at the top of the page with links to brave and Firefox.

Isn't Brave just attempt to copy Google? It's Chromium based, with their own ad system ... why choose lesser evil?

Re: How to fight back against Google FLoC

#40

Post by patates »

usgroup wrote: post #36

Frankly I’m not sure I see a world where Internet advertising is not targeted . Sure it drives profit for Google et al but it does so because it drives profit for a million other businesses. It’s non existence implies a substantial economic cost. I’d like to see more written and more popularly known about effective, targeted but privacy respecting ad models. Then a good argument would be “why FloC when X is possible?…

I don't like the defeatist attitude. Targeted advertising is an opportunistic reaction of the companies who lived the first-mover advantage to its fullest, lacking any regulation.

The market is big enough and can survive regulation, and would evolve alternatives, and the associated deadweight loss would be an acceptable compromise.

Not to mention, the targeted advertising is a game of Prisoner's Dilemma, where all parties lose, it's not even 100% sure if the regulation would cause inefficiency at all.

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