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Docker Desktop for Mac (Apple Silicon)

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31–40 of 124 posts

Re: Docker Desktop for Mac (Apple Silicon)

#31
post #22

Doesn’t this imply that we could have Docker for iOS? I don’t think Apple would allow it, but it seems like an interesting antitrust wedge if they blocked it.

I’m just dreaming out loud here but I would love for the iPad to allow for a developer workflow similar to Fedora Silverblue. Perhaps not the layered OS images but the containerized sandboxes (toolbox) and the App Store instead of Flathub.

Re: Docker Desktop for Mac (Apple Silicon)

#32
post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don’t necessarily need a majority to influence the population. Nassim Taleb has described several examples of “intolerant minorities” that influence the behavior of the whole. I wouldn’t be surprised if a similar thing happens with ARM. https://medium.com/incerto/the-most-intolerant-wins-the-dict...

Well, I do hope that in this case the “intolerant minority” will drive cross-compilation and platform independence of code. It would be sad - and in the long term unsuccessful - if it just Balkanized the development landscape.

Yeah it's quite fortunate that just as everyone is dropping x86 32 bit support, aarch64 comes along and prevents the ecosystem from hardcoding x86_64 too much. It makes sure that the computing landscape doesn't assume too much about the arch.

Re: Docker Desktop for Mac (Apple Silicon)

#33
post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don’t necessarily need a majority to influence the population. Nassim Taleb has described several examples of “intolerant minorities” that influence the behavior of the whole. I wouldn’t be surprised if a similar thing happens with ARM. https://medium.com/incerto/the-most-intolerant-wins-the-dict...

My point being that Apple adoption of ARM is irrelevant for servers, Apple products aren't even available in most countries below tier 2 in an amount that developers would care. They will either be using Windows in some form (even if pirated), now with Linux VMs as standard feature, or some Linux variant.

It's a chicken and egg problem. Generally though, I expect ARM to be cheaper in the long run as there are more companies that can build ARM chips. Even if the users of those clouds won't see the difference because of profit margins, it's in the interest of Azure, AWS, etc to push users towards the cheaper hardware. Already the fact they use ARM at all improves their situation on the table with Intel and AMD quite a lot.

Re: Docker Desktop for Mac (Apple Silicon)

#34
post #19

Reminder: unlike the docker command line tool, and the dockerd server container management tool, the Docker Desktop products are a) not free software, b) not even source available, and c) send a lot of sensitive data about your system back to Docker Inc without consent. I didn’t realize this for a while myself, as the docker CLI tools are all free software. The “Desktop” variants are not, and embed spyware.

is there an alternative to the "Desktop" for Docker we should be using?

Re: Docker Desktop for Mac (Apple Silicon)

#35
post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don’t necessarily need a majority to influence the population. Nassim Taleb has described several examples of “intolerant minorities” that influence the behavior of the whole. I wouldn’t be surprised if a similar thing happens with ARM. https://medium.com/incerto/the-most-intolerant-wins-the-dict...

My point being that Apple adoption of ARM is irrelevant for servers, Apple products aren't even available in most countries below tier 2 in an amount that developers would care. They will either be using Windows in some form (even if pirated), now with Linux VMs as standard feature, or some Linux variant.

>My point being that Apple adoption of ARM is irrelevant for servers, Apple products aren't even available in most countries below tier 2 in an amount that developers would care.

(a) It's not those countries that drive trends (if they were we wouldn't have heavy frameworks and a 10MB SPA bloat as the norm in web development),

(b) ARM was already trending for use in servers (heck, even supercomputers),

(c) and Apple's transition means tons of devs in the West (and elsewhere, e.g. I've worked outside of Europe and US and everybody had a Mac in several different companies) will end up with an ARM chip and start influencing server trends

(d) At first many of those devs will go to ARM for personal server needs, like people use Digital Ocean and Linode and VPS providers for tons of personal/small business products today

(e) As for Windows, it wont stay out of the ARM game long (it already has a leg in). And even your developing world devs will easily find cheapo ARM computers for Linux/Windows.

Re: Docker Desktop for Mac (Apple Silicon)

#36
post #10

I tried using docker for x86 builds for Lambda (which doesn't support ARM), and hit this brick wall, unfortunately: https://github.com/docker/for-mac/issues/5123 I went and checked the issue when i saw they've made a formal release but it doesn't appear to be resolved. So maybe keep it in mind if anyone has issues trying to use docker now :) Edit: I see Docker has closed the issue and encouraged people to simply use…

The issue is closed, because, it's not a docker bug, it's a qemu bug. People should engage the qemu project about it.

Re: Docker Desktop for Mac (Apple Silicon)

#37
post #10

I tried using docker for x86 builds for Lambda (which doesn't support ARM), and hit this brick wall, unfortunately: https://github.com/docker/for-mac/issues/5123 I went and checked the issue when i saw they've made a formal release but it doesn't appear to be resolved. So maybe keep it in mind if anyone has issues trying to use docker now :) Edit: I see Docker has closed the issue and encouraged people to simply use…

I don't know what language you're using on Lambda that requires x86 compilation, but if you search the web for "cross-compiling" you'll find relevant results. For example, here's someone using Graviton ARM to compile Rust for Lambda x86: https://burgers.io/cross-compile-rust-from-arm-to-x86-64

You don't actually need to run the same architecture you compile for, you just need a toolchain and environment that matches your target and a compiler for your machine's architecture that knows how to write to your target architecture.

It sounds more complicated than it is, really. How you go about doing this might vary by language, but as Docker for M1 takes off, you'll see more and more guides for doing "hard" things like compiling to x86.

Also, if you find that you're building Docker images on x86 machines and want to build Docker images for Arm as well, have a look at https://docs.docker.com/buildx/working-with-buildx/#build-mu... for example.

Re: Docker Desktop for Mac (Apple Silicon)

#39
post #34
post #19

Reminder: unlike the docker command line tool, and the dockerd server container management tool, the Docker Desktop products are a) not free software, b) not even source available, and c) send a lot of sensitive data about your system back to Docker Inc without consent. I didn’t realize this for a while myself, as the docker CLI tools are all free software. The “Desktop” variants are not, and embed spyware.

is there an alternative to the "Desktop" for Docker we should be using?

Maybe a Linux VM as the Docker host?

Re: Docker Desktop for Mac (Apple Silicon)

#40
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I did not have a 88000, SPARC, PA-RISC, RS/6000 desktop to develop on UNIX. Likewise, with the return of timesharing, anyone can log into their assigned server slot and work just like I was doing 30 years ago.

You don’t necessarily need a majority to influence the population. Nassim Taleb has described several examples of “intolerant minorities” that influence the behavior of the whole. I wouldn’t be surprised if a similar thing happens with ARM. https://medium.com/incerto/the-most-intolerant-wins-the-dict...

The reasonable person adapts to the world around them. The unreasonable person makes the world adapt to them.

Therefore all change is dependent upon the unreasonable person.

The world does not change for reasonable people.

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