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NHS Covid-19 app update blocked for breaking Apple and Google's rules

bbc.co.uk

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Re: NHS Covid-19 app update blocked for breaking Apple and Google's rules

#31

Post by epanchin »

dkarp wrote: post #17
bellyfullofbac wrote: post #7

Gotta love the images of the overly complex QR codes... Hey devs, stop packing so much info on those things!

I was curious what it was sending so scanned it: UKC19TRACING:1:eyJhbGciOiJFUzI1NiIsImtpZCI6ImlSNHdIVEIxdkF2a 2RjbEdCQWVwUlpxSzZSb29GbVNxcEpDQVd4alFvUFEifQ.eyJpZCI6IlA1Mkt XUFIzIiwidHlwIjoiZW50cnkiLCJvcG4iOiJFbncgTGxlb2xpYWQgeSBQcmF3 ZiIsImFkciI6IldlbHNoIEdvdmVybm1lbnRcbkNyb3duIEJ1aWxkaW5nXG5DY XRoYXlzIFBhcmtcbkNBUkRJRkYsIENGMTAgM05RIiwicHQiOiJDQVJESUZGIi wicGMiOiJDRjEwM05RIiwidnQiOiIwMDEifQ.3USKQlzdD4_RlH-wWvPPyQig…

You do not need an internet connection to scan the code, which is an advantage. I imagine this is why they’ve included a check and why the code is so large.

It’s worked first time whenever someone I’ve been with has scanned it.

Re: NHS Covid-19 app update blocked for breaking Apple and Google's rules

#32

Post by weddpros »

Gatsky wrote: post #24

If there is one thing we’ve learned from this pandemic it’s that apps will not save us.

If (western) governments had chosen to prevent the epidemic, apps would have helped, but they decided to let the virus spread, just slowly enough.

Also (western) journalists love stories about 3M deaths, surveillance apps or fake news, much more than success stories.

So yes, apps had no chance to save lives. Korea or Singapore show they could have, but we didn't let them.

Re: NHS Covid-19 app update blocked for breaking Apple and Google's rules

#33

Post by sitharus »

That's odd, since the NZ Covid Tracer app definitely has this feature, it's part of the standard process when someone tests positive.

As far as I know it only includes the manually scanned codes though, not the bluetooth proximity tracing data. Perhaps the NHS app was trying to gather this?

Re: NHS Covid-19 app update blocked for breaking Apple and Google's rules

#34

Post by spzb »

mbalyuzi wrote: post #11
cameronh90 wrote: post #4

Irrespective of ones own feelings about this particular app: isn't it interesting that Google and Apple have the power to collect all our location data, but can refuse our democratic governments access to that data even on a voluntary basis?

I find it interesting that there seems to be a (wilful?) ignorance on the part of our government as to quite how big and powerful those corporations are. There seems to be a bit of a "We're the government, so they'll have to do what we ask/tell" going on here I suspect. Probably coupled with incompetent IT project management that didn't bother to worry about the terms and conditions they signed up to, because that wa…

> coupled with incompetent IT project management

The UK Government have made a pig's ear of pretty much the whole of their Covid response precisely because they refuse to engage with anyone who might actually know what they're doing. Everything's been outsourced at great expense to private companies operating on a wing and a prayer basis. Millions of pounds and many weeks' of time early on in the pandemic was wasted building a bespoke app that anyone with any experience told them wouldn't work. They finally were forced into an embarrassing climbdown where they had to accept the Google/Apple solution that they'd previously dismissed as not good enough.

The only thing they've done well is the vaccine programme because they actually let the National Health Service get on with it instead of letting some big outsourcing company flounder about expensively.

Re: NHS Covid-19 app update blocked for breaking Apple and Google's rules

#35

Post by mytailorisrich »

weddpros wrote: post #32
Gatsky wrote: post #24

If there is one thing we’ve learned from this pandemic it’s that apps will not save us.

If (western) governments had chosen to prevent the epidemic, apps would have helped, but they decided to let the virus spread, just slowly enough. Also (western) journalists love stories about 3M deaths, surveillance apps or fake news, much more than success stories. So yes, apps had no chance to save lives. Korea or Singapore show they could have, but we didn't let them.

China also shows that these apps (which combine track and trace, with status) are very useful to re-open the economy after lockdowns in a way that helps contain further outbreaks.

Of course, saying "it seems to work in China" is the surest way to having a course of action shot down as unacceptable whatever its actual merits...

Re: NHS Covid-19 app update blocked for breaking Apple and Google's rules

#36

Post by jjgreen »

cameronh90 wrote: post #15
Hamuko wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple and Google are just upholding their part of the agreement.

I'm not sure you can call it an agreement in any true sense. Apple and Google dictated the terms for accessing the Bluetooth hardware in the particular way required. Many governments around the world wanted more direct access to the hardware than Apple/Google have permitted, or (voluntary or otherwise) access to location data. Google and Apple said if you don't agree to these terms, you don't get to access anything.…

Governments do not have rights, they have power.

Re: NHS Covid-19 app update blocked for breaking Apple and Google's rules

#37

Post by izacus »

ircshotty wrote: post #14
cameronh90 wrote: post #4

Irrespective of ones own feelings about this particular app: isn't it interesting that Google and Apple have the power to collect all our location data, but can refuse our democratic governments access to that data even on a voluntary basis?

Can't speak for Google's case - but Apple certainly goes to great pains to make it clear they don't collect location data on users - it's left on the user's device. Isn't it interesting that it takes an international mega-corporation to take a more realistic and principled approach to user privacy than a democratic government.

> Can't speak for Google's case - but Apple certainly goes to great pains to make it clear they don't collect location data on users - it's left on the user's device.

This is not true at all - as the researcher from Trinity College found out a bit of time ago, Apple collects people location data even if they're not logged into the Apple account: https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2021/03/android-sends-20x-mo...

It's very clearly marked as being collected, so I'm not sure why this myth of Apple not collecting data is being perpetuated. It's seriously misleading actual iOS users about their privacy.

Re: NHS Covid-19 app update blocked for breaking Apple and Google's rules

#38

Post by mantap »

dkarp wrote: post #17
bellyfullofbac wrote: post #7

Gotta love the images of the overly complex QR codes... Hey devs, stop packing so much info on those things!

I was curious what it was sending so scanned it: UKC19TRACING:1:eyJhbGciOiJFUzI1NiIsImtpZCI6ImlSNHdIVEIxdkF2a 2RjbEdCQWVwUlpxSzZSb29GbVNxcEpDQVd4alFvUFEifQ.eyJpZCI6IlA1Mkt XUFIzIiwidHlwIjoiZW50cnkiLCJvcG4iOiJFbncgTGxlb2xpYWQgeSBQcmF3 ZiIsImFkciI6IldlbHNoIEdvdmVybm1lbnRcbkNyb3duIEJ1aWxkaW5nXG5DY XRoYXlzIFBhcmtcbkNBUkRJRkYsIENGMTAgM05RIiwicHQiOiJDQVJESUZGIi wicGMiOiJDRjEwM05RIiwidnQiOiIwMDEifQ.3USKQlzdD4_RlH-wWvPPyQig…

It seems crazy that they are using JSON in a QR code. There are much more compact encodings they could have chosen.

Re: NHS Covid-19 app update blocked for breaking Apple and Google's rules

#39

Post by simion314 »

dustinmoris wrote: post #20
ircshotty wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can't speak for Google's case - but Apple certainly goes to great pains to make it clear they don't collect location data on users - it's left on the user's device. Isn't it interesting that it takes an international mega-corporation to take a more realistic and principled approach to user privacy than a democratic government.

Well put! These are the moments which everyone remembers and refers back to when the next troll comes along and claims that Apple must allow third party app stores.

People are not trolls to demand the freedom to do whatever they want with their property and the freedom to pass laws to force Apple to permit that. The argument that if you do not like Apple or Goole use Linux can be reverse and if Apple or Google does not like EU or other market with anti-competitive laws they are very,very free not to do business there.

Should I remind the fanboys again that Apple gives China direct access to users data? Apple does not have principles but PR people with spreadsheets, you as an user could use your brain and not install a government app or don't give it permissions but if you want the freedom to delegate your thinking to a for profit company you don't have to demand the others give up their freedom too (I don't need X so you should not have it either )

Re: NHS Covid-19 app update blocked for breaking Apple and Google's rules

#40

Post by llimos »

tgsovlerkhgsel wrote: post #22
cameronh90 wrote: post #4

Irrespective of ones own feelings about this particular app: isn't it interesting that Google and Apple have the power to collect all our location data, but can refuse our democratic governments access to that data even on a voluntary basis?

In this specific case, I'm really glad they're exercising their power, because they seem to be doing it in the best possible way, and have forced governments to do the right, privacy-preserving thing. And I think having this power is OK - nobody should be forced to help the government implement something unethical. There may be scenarios where this goes horribly wrong, but the contact tracing framework is a case wher…

> nobody should be forced to help the government implement something unethical

Nobody is forced to install the app at all (at least in the UK's case).

And if they do, they're not forced to share their location anyway.

On the other hand, anyone who has an Android phone is forced to share tons of data with Google. And the cost of not having one is much higher than the cost of not having the government's app.

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