Geeky Stats About Magic Mushrooms • Hacker News Board

Re: Geeky Stats About Magic Mushrooms

#31

Post by Wingman4l7 » Sun, Jun 19, 2011, 1:03 AM UTC

axolotl wrote: post #22

Wingman4l7 wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I might remove MDMA from that list -- the head researcher at Johns Hopkins for this study was interviewed about a similar 2006 study he did; it mentions that studies at John Hopkins have shown the potential for brain damage from MDMA ("certain nerve cells", anyway). http://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/Press_releases/2006/Griffiths...

It should be noted that there was a scandal involving MDMA research at Johns Hopkins. A study claimed to prove that MDMA caused brain damage, but in fact Methamphetamine had accidentally been administered instead of MDMA. http://www.wired.com/techbiz/media/news/2003/09/60328 Of course, this doesn't disprove other legitimate studies. The interview you link took place well after that scandal.

I was unaware that the research had been discredited; thanks for letting me know.

That said, for those who are interested, here is the paper that the article is referring to:

Griffiths, R.R., Johnson, M.W., Richards, W.A., Richards, B.D., McCann, U., & Jesse, R. (in press). Psilocybin occasioned mystical-type experiences: Immediate and persisting dose-related effects. Psychopharmacology.

... and here is the previous study he did:

Griffiths, R.R., Richards, W.A., McCann, U., & Jesse, R. (2006). Psilocybin can occasion mystical experiences having substantial and sustained personal meaning and spiritual significance. Psychopharmacology, 187, 268-283.

...which was the study related to the aforementioned interview: http://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/Press_releases/2006/Griffiths...

Re: Geeky Stats About Magic Mushrooms

#32

Post by gamble » Sun, Jun 19, 2011, 1:09 AM UTC

guard-of-terra wrote: post #6

evandena wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IMF and World Bank regulations maybe?

They have no money anyway short of begging and selling their country status. What could possibly go wrong?

You might want to ask a Panamanian that question.

Re: Geeky Stats About Magic Mushrooms

#33

Post by mcdowall » Sun, Jun 19, 2011, 1:37 AM UTC

maqr wrote: post #23

mcdowall wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They have, I went to the Gili Islands 2 years ago, no cars and they advertise legal mushroom shakes, also amazing island for diving (not in conjunction however!) Example http://www.flickr.com/photos/sgoralnick/2625980738/

That picture looked really appealing until I found some context: http://wikitravel.org/en/Gili_Islands#Stay_safe

The shakes are advertised in most bars on the menu's and A boards outside, all very commonplace I found.

Re: Geeky Stats About Magic Mushrooms

#34

Post by sleight42 » Sun, Jun 19, 2011, 2:02 AM UTC

lyudmil wrote: post #27

The sample seems a bit odd. Reading the comments it seems that a disproportionate percentage of the subjects were into meditation (a number of them report "increasing meditation"). I haven't read the study but it seems to me they'd have a hard time publishing their conclusions as they stand now. I'm particularly skeptical of medical research. An ex-girlfriend was a student at Harvard Medical School and worked in thre…

I noticed the same high correlation of "new-agey" practices among the participants. However, it's worth considering the sort of people who would be open to participating in such a study in the first place.

The ideal study, I believe, would consistent of a statistical cross-section of a particular culture/society. It's highly unlikely that the more socially conservative elements in said culture would participate in such a study. This may, in part, explain the somewhat shared nature of the remarks by the participants.

Re: Geeky Stats About Magic Mushrooms

#35

Post by flatline » Sun, Jun 19, 2011, 2:57 AM UTC

mannicken wrote: post #30

themgt wrote: post #7

If psilocybin was unknown and a pharmaceutical company discovered it along with the "appropriate" dose and published this study, their stock would be worth approximately the entire western world's GDP tomorrow Except... it wouldn't because these people only required 4 doses, each a month apart, and then had better results 14 months later than every "take daily for life" psych drug on the market today

It's not that easy :) The "take daily for life" pills work always; you can have the crappiest day of life and take a pill and you're happy. That's why they're addictive, even stuff like cigarettes or alcohol -- always work, always calm you down, bad trip impossible. Psychedelics require preparation, and active cooperation on the patients side. If you think you can be depressed and suicidal and eat a mushroom and have…

> "take daily for life" pills work always

Sadly, the immediate fixes are not as sure fire as they are made to sound. Most people I've known on medications for depression and anxiety are juggling prescriptions and dosages to retain the benefits of the drugs. While SSRIs may not give you a "bad trip", they can have paradoxical effects as well as a host of terrible side effects, and withdrawal can be long and difficult. Benzodiazepenes are still widely prescribed and tolerance and addiction build rapidly in most people. For many people these work great but for many they do not, or never completely.

Re: Geeky Stats About Magic Mushrooms

#36

Post by [deleted] » Sun, Jun 19, 2011, 3:34 AM UTC

woodall wrote: post #29

powertower wrote: post #19

You can purchase mushroom spores (in syringes) legally, get some simple grow medium, pack it in glass cans, sterilize that in oven, inject the medium with spores, and grow those mushrooms in a converted fish tank (they needs humidity). Takes about 2 weeks. Spores do not contain psilocybin. Here is one seller: http://www.thehawkseye.com/ that I remember.

Highly illegal once grown! Had a friend's pet dealer get life, but that was for a couple pounds; he sold them at festivals. [US] *by pet, I mean animals

[deleted]

Re: Geeky Stats About Magic Mushrooms

#37

Post by schmittz » Sun, Jun 19, 2011, 3:39 AM UTC

guard-of-terra wrote: post #2

I wonder why won't some starving poor tiny pacific island legalize [some] drugs. They could probably make good money from drug tourism.

There is a not starving (though severely bankrupt) very small peninsula country on the atlantic that has not legalized, though "decriminalized" ALL drugs to measured success. That country is Portugal, which officially decriminalized all drugs nationwide in 2001. It is a very interesting data point in the argument over drug legalizations. Arguably it is the closest anyone has come to large scale legalization of drugs (interestingly, their case is not limited to just marijuana). More information can be found in this Scientific American article and the Wikipedia article on the drug policies of Portugal: http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=portugal-dr... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drug_policy_of_Portugal

Re: Geeky Stats About Magic Mushrooms

#38

Post by Alex3917 » Sun, Jun 19, 2011, 3:50 AM UTC

lyudmil wrote: post #27

The sample seems a bit odd. Reading the comments it seems that a disproportionate percentage of the subjects were into meditation (a number of them report "increasing meditation"). I haven't read the study but it seems to me they'd have a hard time publishing their conclusions as they stand now. I'm particularly skeptical of medical research. An ex-girlfriend was a student at Harvard Medical School and worked in thre…

"Reading the comments it seems that a disproportionate percentage of the subjects were into meditation (a number of them report 'increasing meditation')."

I haven't read this study yet, but I know that Johns Hopkins is doing another study where one of the groups actually takes meditation lessons for six months before taking the drug. These studies are mostly meant to validate the methodology and to demonstrate that they can be used safely in a well chosen population when done under professional supervision. It's not really meant to accurately measure what percentage of the population at large would be able to safely achieve ego death and/or have a primary religious experience.

Also, I agree with you that medical studies are generally sketchy, but these aren't medical studies. These studies might eventually be used by a drug company in convincing the FDA to grant a new drug investigation permit, but probably not for at least another 5 - 10 years.

Re: Geeky Stats About Magic Mushrooms

#39

Post by Alex3917 » Sun, Jun 19, 2011, 3:54 AM UTC

quinndupont wrote: post #3

Seems like there has been renewed interest in psychedelics in the geek community. I'd recommend that everyone read Markoff's "What the Dormouse Said" for the history of geeks and drugs.

The book is vaguely interesting, but truth in advertising is that it's pretty dry and only ten or twenty pages out of the entire book are about drugs.

Re: Geeky Stats About Magic Mushrooms

#40

Post by drivebyacct2 » Sun, Jun 19, 2011, 4:01 AM UTC

Wingman4l7 wrote: post #17

zyb09 wrote: post #9

Hope not to sound like a extreme liberal, but a lot of the highly illegal hard drugs, aren't nearly as hazardous or addicting as they made out to be and can have positive effects - IF used right. That includes psilocybin, MDMA, THC, DMT, LSD and whatnot. Others are clearly toxic and very unhealthy, like crack or meth. It's all matter of being well informed about the effect and right use of the drug, as well as a havi…

I might remove MDMA from that list -- the head researcher at Johns Hopkins for this study was interviewed about a similar 2006 study he did; it mentions that studies at John Hopkins have shown the potential for brain damage from MDMA ("certain nerve cells", anyway). http://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/Press_releases/2006/Griffiths...

Well and the other problem with MDMA is that it's often meth or cocaine based, not actual "molly" or pure MDMA.