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If you care about privacy, it’s time to try a new web browser

nytimes.com

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Re: If you care about privacy, it’s time to try a new web browser

#31

Post by clairity »

dtx1 wrote: post #19
franklyt wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can’t believe this was overlooked by a prestigious publication.

Doesn't surprise me at all. The reality is that journalists are just that, journalists. They rarely have any relevant expertise about what they write. Coupled with strict limits on content size enforced by publishers and an audience that often understands even less about the topics discussed you get major errors like these. The amount of text necessary to explain to the average NYT reader what a rendering engine is p…

> "The amount of text necessary to explain to the average NYT reader what a rendering engine is probably more then the allotted text size..."

it's not that hard to summarize: a rendering engine transforms html into pixels on the screen. most people will have at least a vague idea of what html and pixels are. there's no further need to dive into the details where that description is less than 100% accurate (e.g., sreen readers).

that's to say, the reporting is just lazy and uninformed. no need to bail them out with a technical excuse.

Re: If you care about privacy, it’s time to try a new web browser

#32

Post by unreal6 »

xoa wrote: post #29
adrianh wrote: post #11

The author was testing these browsers on an iPhone — but neglected to note that Apple actually prevents other browser engines on iOS. So if you use Firefox or Brave on an iPhone, you’re simply using Safari with a different “skin.” This skin can clearly do some content blocking, and it can provide a different browser UI — but it cannot change the fundamental web technologies that are available in the browser. As such,…

> As such, Safari is basically the new IE6 — it lags all other modern browsers and prevents websites from taking advantage of nice new features. I strongly disagree with you. The new IE6 is Chrome: overwhelming dominance of the web to the extent that Google can dictate "standards" themselves and users begin to lose the ability to use other browsers because "site works best(only) in Chrome", and I think that having my…

> I don't mind if you simply chose not to serve iOS/Mac/Firefox users at all, though of course most would then take their business elsewhere.

I use FF as my daily driver, but as much as I hate to admit it, whatever service I am using is almost always a stronger draw than FF, so I just open it up Chrominium or Brave. Unfortunately, I'm not sure the market for strictly native/browser-agnostic services is large enough to support most uses.

Re: If you care about privacy, it’s time to try a new web browser

#33

Post by true_religion »

coldtea wrote: post #30
adrianh wrote: post #11

The author was testing these browsers on an iPhone — but neglected to note that Apple actually prevents other browser engines on iOS. So if you use Firefox or Brave on an iPhone, you’re simply using Safari with a different “skin.” This skin can clearly do some content blocking, and it can provide a different browser UI — but it cannot change the fundamental web technologies that are available in the browser. As such,…

> As such, Safari is basically the new IE6 — it lags all other modern browsers and prevents websites from taking advantage of nice new features This tired trope must die. No, Safari is not "the new IE6". The problem with IE6 was not that it lagged a few years before adopting some features, it was moving fast and implementing things on its own, forcing standards, etc, and forcing a monoculture due to his large adoptio…

I thought the problem was that for 8+ years it had no feature updates, and he team behind it was disbanded. So everyone hated supporting it since it was buggy, and you knew the bugs would never be fixed.

Re: If you care about privacy, it’s time to try a new web browser

#34

Post by iso1210 »

coldtea wrote: post #30
adrianh wrote: post #11

The author was testing these browsers on an iPhone — but neglected to note that Apple actually prevents other browser engines on iOS. So if you use Firefox or Brave on an iPhone, you’re simply using Safari with a different “skin.” This skin can clearly do some content blocking, and it can provide a different browser UI — but it cannot change the fundamental web technologies that are available in the browser. As such,…

> As such, Safari is basically the new IE6 — it lags all other modern browsers and prevents websites from taking advantage of nice new features This tired trope must die. No, Safari is not "the new IE6". The problem with IE6 was not that it lagged a few years before adopting some features, it was moving fast and implementing things on its own, forcing standards, etc, and forcing a monoculture due to his large adoptio…

Safari on the iphone is probably the only thing keeping some semblence of the open web alive - it's the one place google can't take over.

Re: If you care about privacy, it’s time to try a new web browser

#35

Post by Shorel »

xoa wrote: post #29
adrianh wrote: post #11

The author was testing these browsers on an iPhone — but neglected to note that Apple actually prevents other browser engines on iOS. So if you use Firefox or Brave on an iPhone, you’re simply using Safari with a different “skin.” This skin can clearly do some content blocking, and it can provide a different browser UI — but it cannot change the fundamental web technologies that are available in the browser. As such,…

> As such, Safari is basically the new IE6 — it lags all other modern browsers and prevents websites from taking advantage of nice new features. I strongly disagree with you. The new IE6 is Chrome: overwhelming dominance of the web to the extent that Google can dictate "standards" themselves and users begin to lose the ability to use other browsers because "site works best(only) in Chrome", and I think that having my…

> and users begin to lose the ability to use other browsers

Begin? No. This has been happening for years. This is what killed Opera browser rendering engine.

Re: If you care about privacy, it’s time to try a new web browser

#36

Post by caslon »

wussboy wrote: post #7
franklyt wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My complaint about FF is the inclusion of pocket, a closed-source default with a political bias doesn’t seem appropriate for an open source privacy-focused browser.

Both of your comments in this thread confuse me. “Don’t use these tools which greatly increase your privacy and security because of some minor potential flaw.” To me it sounds like you don’t want to get in to the lifeboat because you might get a sliver climbing in. And you encourage others to stay out as well. Odd.

I agree with Mozilla's views politically, but Pocket is proprietary. It's a major flaw. Something proprietary (I know the Firefox integration is free now, but the server isn't), controlled by an American corporation, turned on by default, that sends content to the user. If it was only an RSS reader, fine. But it sends arbitrary content to the user from Pocket's servers! What if there's an RCE? Their refusal to free Pocket despite it being years since the acquisition points to something sinister, like a NSL.

Re: If you care about privacy, it’s time to try a new web browser

#37

Post by robertoandred »

adrianh wrote: post #11

The author was testing these browsers on an iPhone — but neglected to note that Apple actually prevents other browser engines on iOS. So if you use Firefox or Brave on an iPhone, you’re simply using Safari with a different “skin.” This skin can clearly do some content blocking, and it can provide a different browser UI — but it cannot change the fundamental web technologies that are available in the browser. As such,…

You speak as if other browsers never lag in new features. It took /how/ long for Chrome to get position sticky or backdrop filter?

Re: If you care about privacy, it’s time to try a new web browser

#38

Post by ignoramous »

preommr wrote: post #18

This is not the way. If we relegate privacy to fringe browsers like this, we'll lose in the long run. It's not possible to have 0.05% percent of the market, and try and compete with goliaths like Google. So it creates a feedback loop of a browser that people don't really use because it lacks features/popularity. Or/and these companies are also forced to do things like Brave and their in-browser ads. Meanwhile there'l…

> If we relegate privacy to fringe browsers like this, we'll lose in the long run.

Disruptions and innovations happen on the fringes (classic Clay Christensen). If the disruption is large enough, it'd fast become the norm and upend the incumbents. These developments seem promising when viewed from those lenses?

I work in privacy-tech, and I get told often that the one true answer to privacy is regulations, but at the same time, I also believe privacy-tech like content blockers would continue to be indispensable no matter regulations for one simple reason: As decades pass us by, people become more tech savvy, not less; and as a result, the number of folks who desire more control over tech they use would keep rising.

Re: If you care about privacy, it’s time to try a new web browser

#39

Post by nwienert »

cmeacham98 wrote: post #16
nwienert wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which is actually a good thing for the diversity of browser engines and preventing Google from commandeering web standards and “embrace, extend, extinguish”ing them. If Chrome was allowed on iOS be sure Google would dump unlimited money to get people to use it. Websites would further go down the path of only testing on Chrome, and Google would continue stuffing their browser full of oftentimes needless features. And…

> That, and, Safari is miles ahead of any other engine in terms of performance. It’s not even close. How is it fair to make this statement about iOS where no other engine is even allowed? Maybe Chrome(ium) and/or Firefox would be faster than Webkit on iOS if they were actually allowed to develop for it, or maybe Safari would be the best. It's impossible to know because Apple prevents any competition here.

Because it’s the same engine on Mac and it’s far, far faster (and less battery consuming). Sure, opening it may incentivize Chrome to compete, but I doubt much more than they already are incentivized in general.

Re: If you care about privacy, it’s time to try a new web browser

#40

Post by uoaei »

adrianh wrote: post #11

The author was testing these browsers on an iPhone — but neglected to note that Apple actually prevents other browser engines on iOS. So if you use Firefox or Brave on an iPhone, you’re simply using Safari with a different “skin.” This skin can clearly do some content blocking, and it can provide a different browser UI — but it cannot change the fundamental web technologies that are available in the browser. As such,…

NYT -- where the words sound nice, with no due diligence.
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