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Are Hackers the New Luddites? [audio]

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Re: Are Hackers the New Luddites? [audio]

#31

Post by jakelazaroff »

hn3333 wrote: post #13
agumonkey wrote: post #8

I sense a trend https://getpocket.com/explore/item/what-happens-to-tech-work...

Let's be realistic.. let's say you are a c++ programmer and want to learn some modern JS framework. I bet you it will literally take less than a week of concentrated study work for you to become better than 80-90% of people working with it. You can get a book on the subject, there's great tutorials, heck, just reading the reference will get you far. This is true for a lot of stuff on youtube, coursera etc. I believe.…

Why on earth would you think that? C++ programmers are not “better” than web developers. They work in very different domains, and skills built up in one don’t necessarily transfer to the other.

Re: Are Hackers the New Luddites? [audio]

#32

Post by msla »

tomc1985 wrote: post #7
infoseek12 wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you explain how this relates to hackers being the new Luddites? I haven’t had a chance to listen to the podcast yet but I can’t see how it’s description or yours relates to the title.

I identify as a 'hacker' in the 2600/Phrack tradition, and I definitely feel like a luddite rejecting the centralization of control as everything moves into the cloud, and proliferation of anti-consumer software that disempowers. Linux and BSD are beginning to feel like the last bastions of true user freedom, and the only remaining place that I have any control over my destiny as a user (and creator) of software. DRM…

I agree with you on most things, but I don't quite see it as being a Luddite. I see it as the continued divergence of the closed-source software world and the real world, the former turning into an endless treadmill of forced change sold as upgrades and massive amounts of tracking and the latter being the only world where it's possible to have enough control over your tools to get anything of consequence done. My point is, the real world isn't standing still, and I don't want it to, whereas a Luddite would.

I suppose you can call me a Luddite when the fashionable closed-source hardware/software companies declare that keyboards are now obsolete and demand everyone use touchscreens or voice.

Re: Are Hackers the New Luddites? [audio]

#33

Post by tomc1985 »

100011_100001 wrote: post #29
SCHiM wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Grew up reading Phrack too. Work as pentester these days. I understand code deeply, and have tried my hand at everything from memory corruption exploits to javascript SPA apps. I hate technology more and more. It's moving in the wrong direction. Almost everything technological seems to be used to increase control over individuals, extract money, track or predict. No company can seem to withstand the lure and the powe…

Not a pentester but a code monkey. Here is what worries me. As we get tracked more, algorithms will start making better predictions about us. The negative side of this is that you will get offered ads that are specifically tailored to your interests, at the time you are most likely to buy at a price point you can afford. Essentially you will get controlled and primed by machines to consume, feel certain ways, agree w…

And nobody seems to recognize this emotional component, except the people doing the manipulation!

Screwing with my emotions is my #1 beef with tech today. Even more than the freedom thing.

Friends of mine that jealously guard and maintain their emotional state seem to have issued a blanket exception for tech.

Re: Are Hackers the New Luddites? [audio]

#34

Post by SCHiM »

ethbr0 wrote: post #19
SCHiM wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Grew up reading Phrack too. Work as pentester these days. I understand code deeply, and have tried my hand at everything from memory corruption exploits to javascript SPA apps. I hate technology more and more. It's moving in the wrong direction. Almost everything technological seems to be used to increase control over individuals, extract money, track or predict. No company can seem to withstand the lure and the powe…

I think you can simplify this entire thread into: Software that's built with money, keeps making design decisions that increase profit. Software that's built ambivalent to money, makes other design decisions. Most software is built with money. The only thing that feels like it will fix this is a software/hardware bill of rights. E.g. right to repair, right to source, etc. Otherwise, things will get more exploitive, a…

Too right. It's just evolution really, survival of the fittest.

Software that can afford to have 100 developers work on it will, on average, out-compete software that is sustained by 50 developers.

Software (note: not necessarily _good_ software, this could also be the shittiest software with a nice lock-in) that is good at making money, can afford more developers, lawyers and lobbyists.

It's nothing new under the sun, but it does suck in a major way.

Re: Are Hackers the New Luddites? [audio]

#35

Post by DyslexicAtheist »

calvinmorrison wrote: post #18
agumonkey wrote: post #8

I sense a trend https://getpocket.com/explore/item/what-happens-to-tech-work...

My job offered to 'train' me in using salesforce, all paid trip with training etc. I switched jobs. Now I read perl for a living so who knows if I made the right move!

> Now I read perl for a living so who knows if I made the right move!

I know it's fashionable to hate Perl these days, but I think this sounds like great and rare fun in 2021.

Re: Are Hackers the New Luddites? [audio]

#36

Post by inetknght »

azinman2 wrote: post #23
IAmWorried wrote: post #6

Beside the point, but IMO, all podcasts should have a transcription option as well. I unfortunately just don't have the attention span to listen to hours of people talking, but put it in text format and I have zero issues.

Would you have the same demand for video?

> Would you have the same demand for video?

Yes. I turn CC on for most videos, even movies or shows watched at home.

Re: Are Hackers the New Luddites? [audio]

#37

Post by adkadskhj »

IAmWorried wrote: post #6

Beside the point, but IMO, all podcasts should have a transcription option as well. I unfortunately just don't have the attention span to listen to hours of people talking, but put it in text format and I have zero issues.

I think my issue with audio/video is i often finding myself skimming articles for content i'm interested, before i deep-dive in the content and consume it fully.

I don't mind video or audio if i _know_ i want it. But it's obscenely slow to verify if video/audio content is worth my time.

So much content on the internet is shallow or misleading. Text is easier to filter for me.

Re: Are Hackers the New Luddites? [audio]

#38

Post by pedrosorio »

busterarm wrote: post #22
hn3333 wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's be realistic.. let's say you are a c++ programmer and want to learn some modern JS framework. I bet you it will literally take less than a week of concentrated study work for you to become better than 80-90% of people working with it. You can get a book on the subject, there's great tutorials, heck, just reading the reference will get you far. This is true for a lot of stuff on youtube, coursera etc. I believe.…

Everyone has gaps in experience. I've worked in both of these kinds of domains and different kinds of people thrive at doing each. The kind of problems you face are different. Most of the backend C++ types I've worked with aren't so great at "design for failure" types of environments whereas on the web development side of things I've found people are much more receptive. I'm working with a few hundred backend enginee…

> I'm working with a few hundred backend engineers who all have a hard time with thinking infrastructure is always available and can handle infinite throughput.

Could you clarify this statement? Are you saying you work with hundreds of backend engineers:

- who all believe infra is always available and can handle infinite throughput (???)

or

- who can't wrap their head around an environment where infra is so scalable / high availability that it might as well be "infinite" and so they are always looking designing for tradeoffs that don't exist in your environment?

If the former, where do these people work? If the latter, where do these people work?

Re: Are Hackers the New Luddites? [audio]

#40

Post by bumby »

agumonkey wrote: post #8

I sense a trend https://getpocket.com/explore/item/what-happens-to-tech-work...

I think it’s the same process, just at a higher velocity.

Jobs have always been at risk of obsolescence. Jobs either require continual learning (typically the “professions”, e.g., physician, lawyer,...) or were at risk for being irrelevant. In the past, the pace of irrelevance was often slow enough to span a lifetime or multiple generations so people could still make a (slowly dwindling) living. Now the turnover just seems much faster that irrelevance can come at multiple times in ones career.

What’s the quote? “There future will belong to those who learn, unlearn, and relearn.”

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