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Endless Operating System

endlessos.com

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Re: Endless Operating System

#31
post #6

Actually I think students need to learn to use apt. I swear, the entire reason I got comfortable with the command line is because when I was 16 I couldn't afford a Windows license, and I ordered a free Ubuntu CD. I'm still very good with the terminal and it serves me well in my six-figure career

I've never really understood why command lines are so intimidating for people. Especially in today's world where you can search up whatever commands you need fairly effortlessly through the power of the internet. A large majority of simple command line use cases tend to be $Command, $options $input file/directory $output file/directory That shouldn't be overly complicated for honestly most people with literacy who ar…

I was telling some college students how to do something and I said, "then hit return" and I had to explain that I meant the enter key. So it might take a while to be ready for the command line.

Re: Endless Operating System

#32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've never really understood why command lines are so intimidating for people. Especially in today's world where you can search up whatever commands you need fairly effortlessly through the power of the internet. A large majority of simple command line use cases tend to be $Command, $options $input file/directory $output file/directory That shouldn't be overly complicated for honestly most people with literacy who ar…

Normal computer users don't understand: - What a filesystem is. - How directories, files, and filesystems relate to one another. - What a server is/does. - How any kind of raw text whatsoever relates to what the computer "actually is" (the GUI) - When or how or under what circumstances a program might read a file (say, re-reading a config file) - What all that prompt noise means. - Why some things they type on the co…

To boot:

In general, many popular unix utilities are cryptically named and they are not holistically designed. Consequently different programs take different flags for the same semantic, or some flags must be prefixed with a single dash and others with two dashes, or some flags are required to be passed in a particular order, or to view the docs for some commands it's `man command` and for others it's a `--help` flag but in all cases they're written for power users, or the fact that gnu utilities don't have the same interface as bsd utilities, etc.

And then there's the hot mess that is bash (or sh or zsh or...)...

Re: Endless Operating System

#34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've never really understood why command lines are so intimidating for people. Especially in today's world where you can search up whatever commands you need fairly effortlessly through the power of the internet. A large majority of simple command line use cases tend to be $Command, $options $input file/directory $output file/directory That shouldn't be overly complicated for honestly most people with literacy who ar…

I was telling some college students how to do something and I said, "then hit return" and I had to explain that I meant the enter key. So it might take a while to be ready for the command line.

When we were dating my wife took an introductory CS course to humor me and I remember how difficult it was for her to grasp the concept that the programs you run on the command line happen in the context of a directory and you can change that directory. In her mind a directory was exactly a picture of a folder that you can double click on, not something that you run programs inside of.

Re: Endless Operating System

#35
post #6

Actually I think students need to learn to use apt. I swear, the entire reason I got comfortable with the command line is because when I was 16 I couldn't afford a Windows license, and I ordered a free Ubuntu CD. I'm still very good with the terminal and it serves me well in my six-figure career

Apt and dnf/yum.

90% of Linux usage is rhel based (personal machine is fedora). And the other 10% is aws Ubuntu.

Id saying get good at 1 and know thr basics with tht other.

Re: Endless Operating System

#36
post #6

Actually I think students need to learn to use apt. I swear, the entire reason I got comfortable with the command line is because when I was 16 I couldn't afford a Windows license, and I ordered a free Ubuntu CD. I'm still very good with the terminal and it serves me well in my six-figure career

I've never really understood why command lines are so intimidating for people. Especially in today's world where you can search up whatever commands you need fairly effortlessly through the power of the internet. A large majority of simple command line use cases tend to be $Command, $options $input file/directory $output file/directory That shouldn't be overly complicated for honestly most people with literacy who ar…

Most forms of utility, including forms that come from using a CLI, have an acquisition cost. Rationally it makes sense to invest in things whose acquisition cost is lower than their utility. When a time horizon is introduced, for example, five minutes, the rational response changes. The acquisition cost becomes higher than the value generated. Once you've learned something there is no acquisition cost. So generalizing from that position produces the prediction that others are behaving irrationally. Which they would be, if their bandwidth was unlimited, but in practice they have to spend more time doing real time work because they live in a time context and only have a limited budget on which they can spend non-realtime thinking. Since there are a whole host of different things which have lower acquisition costs than expected utilities, some people end up exploring, say, genetics or rocket science, instead of computer interface usage optimizations. They weren't being irrational. They were constrained and they made the cooperative choice to let you explore one thing while they explored another. As a result, you can learn from them and they learn from you and the overall acquisitions costs for everyone are lowered.

Another way to say this is that the people who were too intimidated to use CLIs know things that you don't that are of the same character as your own knowledge of CLIs and it shouldn't have been overly complicated for you to know those in a modern society seeing as you are literate.

If you think people should really do what you are advocating: pave the roads. Lower the acquisition cost. Make it easier for people who are time constrained to do the thing you think they should be doing.

And so people did... and now we arrive at why things are the way they are.

It turns out that in the case of CLIs there is a usability problem. CLIs are constrained to text. Other mediums are a superset. They have more options for lowering the barrier. The people who are doing the paving in those cases are able to make better progress and faster! The masses flow to the GUI, not the CLI, because the GUI does a better job lowering the acquisition cost! It is a fight. On one hand we have the CLI, a hand tied behind its back. It is not allowed to go beyond text. In the other we have the other mediums. They have text, but are not limited to it. Should the CLI overcome them, they shall just put a little window wherein the CLI is present. They might do a nasty trick when they do this, stealing the fame of the CLI, by calling this a TextArea or a TextInput or even a TextBox.

Woe to the CLI, we type into the textboxes, supposing that the GUI has won.

Re: Endless Operating System

#37
post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just type "help" into anything that looks like a prompt. From there things are usually discoverable enough, and if not, now I have strings, that I can C/P straight into a search engine. ;)

zsh: command not found: help

Python help: Can’t open file ‘help’: [Errno 2] No such file or directory

Python -help: Unknown option: -e

Python —-help: actual help

Stupid users, it’s so intuitive!

(PS it always bugs me that every program uses a different option for checking the version. Node is -v, python is -V, dotnet is —-version. Again, couldn’t be more intuitive, duck users, right?)

Re: Endless Operating System

#38
post #37
post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

zsh: command not found: help

Python help: Can’t open file ‘help’: [Errno 2] No such file or directory Python -help: Unknown option: -e Python —-help: actual help Stupid users, it’s so intuitive! (PS it always bugs me that every program uses a different option for checking the version. Node is -v, python is -V, dotnet is —-version. Again, couldn’t be more intuitive, duck users, right?)

I actually didn't know about python -V! python also accepts --version, but if you give it -v, that's verbose, which will only confuse people more. I believe java used to only accept -version with one hyphen, but now it accepts --version with two as well.

Re: Endless Operating System

#39
post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just type "help" into anything that looks like a prompt. From there things are usually discoverable enough, and if not, now I have strings, that I can C/P straight into a search engine. ;)

zsh: command not found: help

[deleted]

Re: Endless Operating System

#40
post #3

they seem to be positioning itself the same way Ubuntu was back in 2004 or so, before Canonical made a hard pivot into where they are today. That space isn't an easy one to operate in. This is the distrowatch page describing the technical details underpinning Endless: https://distrowatch.com/table.php?distribution=endless

Not really, no.

Ubuntu was broadly a continuation of the UserLinux project. A simple, easy-to-install distro, with a single example of each of the mainstream app categories. An installer that asks only the most essential questions; no software ones, no hardware-config ones, not even a root password. But nonetheless a mainstream distro with mainstream choices.

Endless is quite different.

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