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TikTok wants to keep tracking iPhone users with state-backed workaround

arstechnica.com

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Re: TikTok wants to keep tracking iPhone users with state-backed workaround

#31

Post by dannyr »

josh2600 wrote: post #22
dannyr wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I'm not a fan of the data gathering done by Google and Facebook, the magnitude of tracking done by China are far, far greater.

Do you have any metrics or other proof to verify this statement?

I read this book:

We Have Been Harmonized: Life in China's Surveillance State - Kai Strittmatter (Author)

https://bookshop.org/books/we-have-been-harmonized-life-in-c...

"China's new drive for repression is being underpinned by unpre-cedented advances in technology: facial and voice recognition, GPS tracking, supercomputer databases, intercepted cell phone conver-sations, the monitoring of app use, and millions of high-resolution security cameras make it nearly impossible for a Chinese citizen to hide anything from authorities. Commercial transactions, including food deliveries and online purchases, are fed into vast databases, along with everything from biometric information to social media activities to methods of birth control. Cameras (so advanced that they can locate a single person within a stadium crowd of 60,000) scan for faces and walking patterns to track each individual's movement."

Re: TikTok wants to keep tracking iPhone users with state-backed workaround

#32

Post by tediousdemise »

Majestic121 wrote: post #7

"Three people with knowledge of briefings between Apple and developers also said the Cupertino, California-based company would be wary of taking strong action, despite a clear violation of its stated rules, if CAID has the support of China’s tech giants as well as its government agencies." That's chilling. I tend to have a good opinion of Apple regarding privacy protection, even though I'm not an Apple user, but if e…

China is their bottom line when it comes to fab. If China kicks Apple out, we can expect 50k dollar iPhones soon thereafter. It's sad that China has outcompeted the western world, but it makes sense when you consider the fact that they engage in human rights abuses to do so.

Re: TikTok wants to keep tracking iPhone users with state-backed workaround

#33

Post by dannyr »

disgu wrote: post #17
dannyr wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I'm not a fan of the data gathering done by Google and Facebook, the magnitude of tracking done by China are far, far greater.

That's according to "I know China evil" or is this based on anything? We know that China was playing catch-up when Snowden leaked his stuff so they might have caught up. Can you link the corresponding leaks? I'd love to read some of the Chinese ones because the most recent big things I could find were Snowden leaks.

I have read a number of news articles and the book "We Have Been Harmonized" https://bookshop.org/books/we-have-been-harmonized-life-in-c...

Is this enough for me to say "I Know China evil"?

Re: TikTok wants to keep tracking iPhone users with state-backed workaround

#34

Post by iainmerrick »

dylan604 wrote: post #25
mokash wrote: post #12

I will repost a comment I made about Apple and China in another post like 1.5 years ago: "Apple are beholden to China. Sure, China is a huge market for them but I think the bigger issue is manufacturing: if they piss China off they won’t have anything to sell, anywhere! I’m sure Apple execs know this and I hope they’re quickly planning to reduce, if not remove this dependency."

And how has that planning been going in those 18 months?

Presumably that is something Apple will keep a closely-guarded secret, even more so than usual.

Re: TikTok wants to keep tracking iPhone users with state-backed workaround

#35

Post by imglorp »

akmarinov wrote: post #11
Majestic121 wrote: post #7

"Three people with knowledge of briefings between Apple and developers also said the Cupertino, California-based company would be wary of taking strong action, despite a clear violation of its stated rules, if CAID has the support of China’s tech giants as well as its government agencies." That's chilling. I tend to have a good opinion of Apple regarding privacy protection, even though I'm not an Apple user, but if e…

There's about 85.3 billion reasons a year for them to not stand up to the CCP and in the end Apple's interest in privacy is mostly a tool to differentiate its offerings from the competition so they can sell people stuff.

It's a $2.2 trillion dollar company with $200 billion in cash. They can easily afford to do the right thing. If they offered a private device and said to all governments "take it or leave it" then those governments would answer only to their people if they banned the device.

Of course, name one public corporation that would leave a little cash on the table, ever, to do the right thing.

Re: TikTok wants to keep tracking iPhone users with state-backed workaround

#36

Post by powerapple »

Majestic121 wrote: post #7

"Three people with knowledge of briefings between Apple and developers also said the Cupertino, California-based company would be wary of taking strong action, despite a clear violation of its stated rules, if CAID has the support of China’s tech giants as well as its government agencies." That's chilling. I tend to have a good opinion of Apple regarding privacy protection, even though I'm not an Apple user, but if e…

I don't think Apple should care about CAA. It is a private organization, although it may have ways to lobby the government, it is far from CCP's business. Of course, it has all the big companies' support, it might be a problem for Apple.

Also I don't think Apple's policy would be a big problem for CAID. After all, you just need to ask your user's permission when loading your game, I am sure people will just click yes. If they don't, they are not your target user anyway.

I hope Apple hold a strong stance on this. Previous Tencent refused to pay Apple 30% of payment made to authors on WeChat, they resolved it by Apple backing down by not asking for the cut for those payments. It was a big story for a while. Apple's decision would be based on market.

Re: TikTok wants to keep tracking iPhone users with state-backed workaround

#37

Post by notyourwork »

tediousdemise wrote: post #32
Majestic121 wrote: post #7

"Three people with knowledge of briefings between Apple and developers also said the Cupertino, California-based company would be wary of taking strong action, despite a clear violation of its stated rules, if CAID has the support of China’s tech giants as well as its government agencies." That's chilling. I tend to have a good opinion of Apple regarding privacy protection, even though I'm not an Apple user, but if e…

China is their bottom line when it comes to fab. If China kicks Apple out, we can expect 50k dollar iPhones soon thereafter. It's sad that China has outcompeted the western world, but it makes sense when you consider the fact that they engage in human rights abuses to do so.

I'm not sure its outcompeted in the traditional sense if production doesn't follow environmental standards and pollutes the world. We love to buy cheap stuff because once it ships over the pacific the pollution isn't our problem. At some point we will pay for cheap electronics from the asian world.

Re: TikTok wants to keep tracking iPhone users with state-backed workaround

#38

Post by anon9001 »

Technically, what's going on here?

"CAID" isn't a public iOS technology, and the article doesn't say what it means.

Some googling returns: https://mmachina.cn/wp-content/uploads/2021/02/MMA%E4%B8%AD%...

Apparently it means "CAA Advertising Id", where "CAA" appears to be the "Creative Artists Agency", some sort of Chinese advertising group. (edit: wrong organization, it's actually "Chinese Anonymization ID", not a group. the group behind it is https://trackingio.com/)

Searching "CAA Advertising Id" yields more Chinese PDFs.

From what I can tell here, "CAID" is a partnership between Chinese industry and Chinese government to track users across apps for better tracking.

The issue here does not seem to be that they've bypassed a technical restriction, but that the developers of major apps are using a shared identifier that Apple doesn't like.

In the US, the analogy would be if apps had tracking SDKs in them, that fingerprinted users across apps, in order to better target them for advertisements, and then the US government can pick up that data and do whatever they'd like with it.

The strange part to me, is that this actually is the situation today in the US.

I don't want to shill for China, but why is this a story? This has been a US industry since at least Doubleclick was invented.

edit:

It's a story because they're using the iOS keychain API to persist and share the tracking identifier. As far as I know, this is a new technique in the wild, but has been theoretically possible since iOS launched. It's only now being seen as necessary because of the iOS14 privacy changes.

It's curious that American ad companies seem to understand Apple's intent and are opting not to risk their business by expanding their SDKs to use keychain sharing techniques, even though they're surely aware you can do this. Chinese ad companies seem ok with risking their clients apps being banned on the app store.

Apple can mitigate this by giving users control of the data and sharing related to keychain services.

Re: TikTok wants to keep tracking iPhone users with state-backed workaround

#39

Post by imglorp »

reaperducer wrote: post #26
Daho0n wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Stop. Buying. Stuff. Made. In. China. Or does it not apply when it inconvenience you?

Stop. Buying. Stuff. Made. In. China. Easy to say when you're bloviating on the internet. Hard to do in real life. I know, because I try. I end up buying a good amount of vintage stuff to keep from supporting China. But there are a lot of things that aren't available at any price where I live that aren't made in China. I went through this a couple of years ago looking for a toaster. The only non-Chinese option availa…

Maybe that toaster is a good metaphor. Lots of people are willing to buy domestic if it's quality and costs a little more. It's not inconceivable to make a US$100 toaster outside of Asia.

Re: TikTok wants to keep tracking iPhone users with state-backed workaround

#40

Post by CerealFounder »

tediousdemise wrote: post #32
Majestic121 wrote: post #7

"Three people with knowledge of briefings between Apple and developers also said the Cupertino, California-based company would be wary of taking strong action, despite a clear violation of its stated rules, if CAID has the support of China’s tech giants as well as its government agencies." That's chilling. I tend to have a good opinion of Apple regarding privacy protection, even though I'm not an Apple user, but if e…

China is their bottom line when it comes to fab. If China kicks Apple out, we can expect 50k dollar iPhones soon thereafter. It's sad that China has outcompeted the western world, but it makes sense when you consider the fact that they engage in human rights abuses to do so.

Say it with me. You cant be a mature service economy AND an ultra cheap manufacturing economy. It's not said, its far more lucrative to to be the former than the latter. This is just an odd consequence that their investments are so concentrated in a single place. and that place is peak antithetical to fair economic fights.
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