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Spain to launch modest trial of four-day working week

theguardian.com

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Re: Spain to launch modest trial of four-day working week

#31

Post by mercacona »

A12-B wrote: post #26
ladyanita22 wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course you will downvote me, but as an inhabitant of such country, the truth is, this is the result of the socialist and incompetent government that is in power due to the even more incompetent opposition. It's been long since we were the leaders of employment creation in the eurozone, back when Rajoy was in power.

It is a modest trial of a four day work week. You are so far from disaster. This can only be a good thing, if it doesn't work they stop doing it, but probably it will work because people are more productive when they have time to breath.

Spaniards don’t appreciate research, we only nod when solutions sprout out of the blue.

In fact, less work hours will be a complication for many -as they are used to justify the work done by sitting for extra-hours at their desk. It’s sad, but it’s also my daily routine.

Re: Spain to launch modest trial of four-day working week

#32

Post by severino »

ladyanita22 wrote: post #5
ladyanita22 wrote: post #4

Oh, beautiful Spain, playing experiments with an unemployment rate of 16.13%... I love how my country hugs the poverty closer and closer each year that passes by.

Of course you will downvote me, but as an inhabitant of such country, the truth is, this is the result of the socialist and incompetent government that is in power due to the even more incompetent opposition. It's been long since we were the leaders of employment creation in the eurozone, back when Rajoy was in power.

> Of course you will downvote me...

Maybe they're downvoting you because they are also Spanish, they know who Rajoy is and what he did, and what effects a pandemic produces on your economy regardless of the party in the government.

Re: Spain to launch modest trial of four-day working week

#33

Post by choeger »

tsimionescu wrote: post #27
Rule35 wrote: post #21

> “The only red lines are that we want to see a true reduction of working hours and no loss of salary or jobs.” And there it is. (The proposal is the government pays a fraction of this for a few years before sticking the companies with this.) It's basically just a minimum wage law but written the other way. This always sticks the bill with the only person actually paying to begin with, the business owner. If society…

The reality is that wages have never kept up with productivity increase. Companies are extracting more and more productivity out of their employees, which translates to ever increasing profits. But this is not an economical law. It's absolutely possible to sacrifice ever increases in growth for more worker time.

Not everywhere. There are many professions that do not take part in the growth of productivity. Medical Doctors for instance (even though some radiologists try hard to) are limited by interactions with their patients. The same holds for employees at points of sales, they only take part indirectly by selling more higher-priced goods.

So a shop owner that wants to stay open sees a 20% reduction in attendance by their employees. This is going to cost some people real money.

Re: Spain to launch modest trial of four-day working week

#34

Post by teataster »

ladyanita22 wrote: post #4

Oh, beautiful Spain, playing experiments with an unemployment rate of 16.13%... I love how my country hugs the poverty closer and closer each year that passes by.

You should check current research on work week reduction. It actually indicates workers increase weekly production. Yes, production, not productivity.

There is this thing called stress, burnout... That decreases production. Less work usually means less stress.

Research is not as solid as I would like, but promising.

Re: Spain to launch modest trial of four-day working week

#35

Post by darkwater »

Rule35 wrote: post #21

> “The only red lines are that we want to see a true reduction of working hours and no loss of salary or jobs.” And there it is. (The proposal is the government pays a fraction of this for a few years before sticking the companies with this.) It's basically just a minimum wage law but written the other way. This always sticks the bill with the only person actually paying to begin with, the business owner. If society…

FYI communist Spain /s has a already minimum wage law and also an universal income one.

Re: Spain to launch modest trial of four-day working week

#36

Post by smel »

I left my job and created a software consulting company two years ago just to be able to work 3/4 day per week it turns out to be more profitable than my previous jobs. I kept even a smaller salary.My company has enough funds to pay my salary for 4 years without working or revenue. The more this number is bigger the more I become happy. I'm trying also to build products to have more revenue streams (no success so far)

Re: Spain to launch modest trial of four-day working week

#37

Post by Mauricebranagh »

darkwater wrote: post #35
Rule35 wrote: post #21

> “The only red lines are that we want to see a true reduction of working hours and no loss of salary or jobs.” And there it is. (The proposal is the government pays a fraction of this for a few years before sticking the companies with this.) It's basically just a minimum wage law but written the other way. This always sticks the bill with the only person actually paying to begin with, the business owner. If society…

FYI communist Spain /s has a already minimum wage law and also an universal income one.

"communist Spain" I assume you are being ironic here

Re: Spain to launch modest trial of four-day working week

#38

Post by teataster »

borjah wrote: post #12

I wish it would be the beginning of something but I doubt it will. Businessmen in Spain sees the worker as another machine in the factory and a lot of them work actively to fired the workers that try to unionize. I talk from experience having worked in 2 some what small (50 to 150 workers), family-owned companies, where in one, the union representative was the son of the owner and in the other there wasn't any union…

My feeling is: spanish business is a somewhat feudal system.

I do not believe that business owners are trying to maximize the efficacy of their resources. If it were so, this kind of proposals would be accepted by the business community, given research on the topic. I believe this proposal is a tremendous opportunity.

I believe business want to control people. As such, one less day is less control. In exchange for Business controlling your life you get different degrees of financial security. Feudalism.

This attitude is reinforced by tradition and misconception. And both employees and employers are at fault. Gee, I am at fault! I haven't worked a 40 hour week in my entire working life. On my defense I would say that I have sent juniors and interns home... But still.

I have also said that research on the topic is not solid, but of this proposal were to be properly implemented could help solve that issue.

Politicians doing a proper policy implementation is a different can of worms. I was hoping that some progressive business would actually start doing 4 hour weeks, rather than a top down approach.

Re: Spain to launch modest trial of four-day working week

#39

Post by outime »

n_cusan wrote: post #14

Growing up in Spain, I am currently living back here after living over 14 years in Germany and spending most of my working life there. I am half Spanish and half German and have a good perspective on both mentalities in general. In my opinion the problem in Spain is definitely the mindset towards work and the way it is perceived. Here work seems to always be some tedious chore that keeps you away from social live. I…

I’m yet another spaniard abroad for close to a decade and couldn’t agree more, it’s like night and day.

The only way to have a decent job in Spain is by working for a foreign company (as a remote worker or FTE if they have a spanish office) from which you can get a decent salary and work conditions or creating your own company if you’re successful. Otherwise, working for spanish companies in Spain is most of the times a death sentence and may as well make you hate your job forever.

Re: Spain to launch modest trial of four-day working week

#40

Post by spyrefused »

Spain is a country where most of the people work in the service sector, I see this reduction complicated for this sector. And with the loss of competitiveness and industry in recent years, I think this measure would only be applicable to civil servants (For those who do not know, Spain is a special case, there are a lot of civil servants, well paid, and besides, it is almost impossible for them to lose their job unless... they assassinate their boss for example). And coming from where the proposal comes from, I would not be surprised if this were the case. They seem intent on destroying any private initiative...
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