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Hospitals lift curtain on prices, reveals giant swings for hips, knees and more

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Re: Hospitals lift curtain on prices, reveals giant swings for hips, knees and more

#31

Post by cwwc »

danaris wrote: post #26
kshacker wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is not a 'broken mess'. It is an 'engineered mess'. The difference is in intent.

Framing it this way is probably inaccurate, and if inaccurate, unhelpful. From decades of observing the system, it seems extremely unlikely to me that it was deliberately engineered to be this way. Rather, different parts of it grew and changed organically and the parts and changes that benefitted moneyed interests in power stayed, while those that did not were discarded. It does not take a deliberate will behind som…

Agree in part — but there has been some engineering due to the moneyed interests. Few other industries have the perverse incentive structure where you cannot “shop around” to keep costs low. Also, the tax code was most assuredly engineered: tax code, as insurance that pays for medical procedures is tax-free to workers. But if they want to pay for the same procedure out of pocket, they have to pay tax on it. This leads to more insurance coverage and less consumer control.

Re: Hospitals lift curtain on prices, reveals giant swings for hips, knees and more

#32

Post by quasirandom »

avgDev wrote: post #11

The US healthcare system is just a completely broken mess. When things go smooth, you are lucky! However, when you have a major procedure, life event or sickness things can get messy quick. We had a child 10 months ago, billing was screwed up by the hospital, then by insurance and we are still in process of getting it resolved. I have now spent at least 8 hours on the phone. I had a surgery, called insurance and veri…

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Re: Hospitals lift curtain on prices, reveals giant swings for hips, knees and more

#33

Post by maerF0x0 »

techrat wrote: post #28
prostoalex wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It does for less regulated markets, which is why you get those promotional mailers with promotional prices on LASIC or teeth whitening. Medical lobby benefits from high barriers to entry, suppressed competition (from foreign doctors or medical tourism companies able to fly their customers abroad) and opaque pricing. Uninformed consumer forced to shop locally is rarely able to extract best pricing. You can look at the…

Funny how it's only when regulation is involved that it begins to pull back the curtain.

Consider that regulation makes a certain tier of solution effectively illegal.

See https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=elq2mnHTFUY

I know this may look a little dystopian, but solutions of this sort would be illegal in the US and then folks would have no choice but to just go without any help at all. (Save for if charity/gov't step in).

Same story with housing. Part of the reason we have homeless ness (or more realistically people living in cars) is because the homes they could afford are illegal. (Hence why somehow they can afford "home" with a motor).

Re: Hospitals lift curtain on prices, reveals giant swings for hips, knees and more

#34

Post by bpodgursky »

quasirandom wrote: post #32
avgDev wrote: post #11

The US healthcare system is just a completely broken mess. When things go smooth, you are lucky! However, when you have a major procedure, life event or sickness things can get messy quick. We had a child 10 months ago, billing was screwed up by the hospital, then by insurance and we are still in process of getting it resolved. I have now spent at least 8 hours on the phone. I had a surgery, called insurance and veri…

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I don't mean to blame you, but for the sake of anyone reading this -- you could absolutely have negotiated this down with the hospital by pleading financial hardship.

I'm not trying to justify the system overall, but please don't take a $150k bill at face value, if you can't reasonably afford to pay it.

Re: Hospitals lift curtain on prices, reveals giant swings for hips, knees and more

#35

Post by spaetzleesser »

gzer0 wrote: post #25
PragmaticPulp wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They have to reveal their prices now. It's part of a bill that the Trump administration passed in 2019: https://www.cnbc.com/2019/11/15/trump-releases-rule-requirin... From the article: > As of Jan. 1, hospitals must publicly reveal the negotiated rates reached with insurers for services, a landmark shift in the sector notoriously opaque when it comes to pricing. The data offer a peek behind the curtain, exposing pri…

The Affordable Care Act laid the framework to allow for this to happen, under the “Sunshine Provisions” [1] https://www.commonwealthfund.org/blog/2014/affordable-care-a...

The Affordable Care Act had some good intentions but they had no courage to make the hard decisions.Trump was terrible for health care in many ways but forcing hospitals to open up their pricing was a very good thing.

I am just a little afraid that they will find other ways to obscure things quickly.

Re: Hospitals lift curtain on prices, reveals giant swings for hips, knees and more

#36

Post by caslon »

OgAstorga wrote: post #30
gzer0 wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Affordable Care Act laid the framework to allow for this to happen, under the “Sunshine Provisions” [1] https://www.commonwealthfund.org/blog/2014/affordable-care-a...

Please don’t make this political.

How is that political? I found it interesting to see the (long) process to get where we are.

Re: Hospitals lift curtain on prices, reveals giant swings for hips, knees and more

#37

Post by civilized »

bluedino wrote: post #27
avgDev wrote: post #11

The US healthcare system is just a completely broken mess. When things go smooth, you are lucky! However, when you have a major procedure, life event or sickness things can get messy quick. We had a child 10 months ago, billing was screwed up by the hospital, then by insurance and we are still in process of getting it resolved. I have now spent at least 8 hours on the phone. I had a surgery, called insurance and veri…

Forget the hospital, let’s talk doctors office. I saw a PA for barely ten minutes, I got a $326 bill. When my wife takes our baby in for a visit, we wait 2-4 hours and get a $200 bill for a routine visit. We get charged if we cancel an appointment with notice or late. They are always fumbling around with bills. Pay $150 at the visit and get a $80 bill in the mail, and then they bring up a $60 charge from last time.

Once I paid a bill that came the usual 3-6 months after the appointment. A few months later they send me a check in the mail for the same amount as that bill. Then a few months after that, another bill for the same amount as the check.

Re: Hospitals lift curtain on prices, reveals giant swings for hips, knees and more

#38

Post by christophilus »

avgDev wrote: post #11

The US healthcare system is just a completely broken mess. When things go smooth, you are lucky! However, when you have a major procedure, life event or sickness things can get messy quick. We had a child 10 months ago, billing was screwed up by the hospital, then by insurance and we are still in process of getting it resolved. I have now spent at least 8 hours on the phone. I had a surgery, called insurance and veri…

I just got a $3k bill in the mail for my 6 month old son’s delivery. This is about 4 months after they incorrectly billed us for part of it.

I have the money, but am thinking of fighting it even though it’s such a small sum.

Either their accounting is incompetent or fraudulent, but either way, I’m annoyed enough to push back. I suspect they are trying to fleece as many people as possible to make up for the 2020 budget hit they took.

Re: Hospitals lift curtain on prices, reveals giant swings for hips, knees and more

#39

Post by kgin »

bpodgursky wrote: post #34
quasirandom wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

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I don't mean to blame you, but for the sake of anyone reading this -- you could absolutely have negotiated this down with the hospital by pleading financial hardship. I'm not trying to justify the system overall, but please don't take a $150k bill at face value, if you can't reasonably afford to pay it.

Hospitals' bar for reasonably afford is low, in my experience. They want proof that you make poverty line wages or below to write it off, below 300% of poverty line (around 38k) for reductions.
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