Uber and Lyft to swap data on banned drivers • Hacker News Board

Re: Uber and Lyft to swap data on banned drivers

#31

Post by seany » Thu, Mar 11, 2021, 10:23 PM UTC

jasode wrote: post #18

Examples of competitors sharing data about bad customers across several industries: - competitor banks share information about people who bounce checks - competitor insurance companies share data about customers with fraudulent claims - competitor casinos share photos of card counters Probably many others I can't think of. EDIT to reply: thanks for the customers' returns example. I found a story explaining the shared…

Why are any of these things good for the consumer? All of these sound like DBs that should be limited if possible.

Re: Uber and Lyft to swap data on banned drivers

#32

Post by justapassenger » Thu, Mar 11, 2021, 10:23 PM UTC

z3c0 wrote: post #27

A noble effort, but I'm certainly concerned about the use of a background check company. This is anecdotal, but I've missed out on a job before due to misreporting from a background check company. The amount of hoops I had to go through to prevent the mistake from happening again took years - and of course, the opportunity for that job was long gone by then. Really, the only proper way to do a background check is via…

Sad truth is that law enforcement also cannot be blindly relied on for background checks. Clerical errors happen everywhere, and law enforcement is even less accountable than some random company.

Re: Uber and Lyft to swap data on banned drivers

#33

Post by ceejayoz » Thu, Mar 11, 2021, 10:25 PM UTC

seany wrote: post #31

jasode wrote: post #18

Examples of competitors sharing data about bad customers across several industries: - competitor banks share information about people who bounce checks - competitor insurance companies share data about customers with fraudulent claims - competitor casinos share photos of card counters Probably many others I can't think of. EDIT to reply: thanks for the customers' returns example. I found a story explaining the shared…

Why are any of these things good for the consumer? All of these sound like DBs that should be limited if possible.

Successful insurance fraud presumably increases costs to consumers via higher premiums, right?

Re: Uber and Lyft to swap data on banned drivers

#34

Post by EGreg » Thu, Mar 11, 2021, 10:28 PM UTC

jackson1442 wrote: post #26

onelovetwo wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How would they know who you are, if you're paying cash or not using the same card?

Most ask for photo ID when you do a return.

This is why it's good for hackers to bootstrap other identities over the years. You never know when they come in handy.

(Note: I have not done this. Or have I? Well, no I haven't, but if I had you wouldn't know about it.)

It's one of the most interesting "careful" projects you can do. Something like "Satoshi Nakamoto" can release software to change the world, but you can compare their style of writing to the short list of crypto researchers whose identities are known. Similarly with JK Rowling's book released under a pseudonym. It's very hard not to slip up and have your identities connected. However, in a world where everyone is supposed to have just one identity, and present this ID to communicate or transact on a given network, and where all databases are interconnected, the only way to preserve anonymity would be to hijack someone else's identity temporarily (such as making a call from a person's phone, or having a homeless person go buy a prepaid phone for you). Sometimes people swap identities voluntarily ... such as with bitcoin mixers or when you swap DNA samples before sending them back to 23andme and other test centers (who btw keep your DNA for the government and all kinds of things). But the risk is that you can be held responsible for something someone else did, with laundered bitcoins (civil forfeiture) or some physical crime (DNA analysis might indicate it's you).

I wrote this 8 years ago: https://magarshak.com/blog/?p=114&cpage=553?p=114&cpage=553

Re: Uber and Lyft to swap data on banned drivers

#35

Post by worker767424 » Thu, Mar 11, 2021, 10:29 PM UTC

If you read "drivers" as "employees," this is much more mixed and can get scary fast.

Re: Uber and Lyft to swap data on banned drivers

#36

Post by nullc » Thu, Mar 11, 2021, 10:30 PM UTC

drstewart wrote: post #17

_jal wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except... it ends up being a non-reviewable blacklist that most people don't even know exists. What safeguards are there so that a grouchy driver or engineer can't use it to mess with their ex? For instance.

>What safeguards are there so that a grouchy driver or engineer can't use it to mess with their ex? For instance. Not gonna say it's perfect, but as an engineer at one of these companies I'll say production access is generally very locked down and audited to the point of often being quite an encumbrance to even be able to debug production issues. Very unlikely anyone will be willy-nilly blacklisting drivers over pers…

The conspiracy theories never end. Next they're going to say there is some 'god view' built into the uber code allowing executives to track and retaliate against journalists that annoy them!

Re: Uber and Lyft to swap data on banned drivers

#37

Post by yxwvut » Thu, Mar 11, 2021, 10:30 PM UTC

justapassenger wrote: post #32

z3c0 wrote: post #27

A noble effort, but I'm certainly concerned about the use of a background check company. This is anecdotal, but I've missed out on a job before due to misreporting from a background check company. The amount of hoops I had to go through to prevent the mistake from happening again took years - and of course, the opportunity for that job was long gone by then. Really, the only proper way to do a background check is via…

Sad truth is that law enforcement also cannot be blindly relied on for background checks. Clerical errors happen everywhere, and law enforcement is even less accountable than some random company.

I'll take FOIA and a bureaucracy with official avenues of redress over a company that likely views my ability to see and rectify their data on me as anything from undesirable to an existential threat.

Re: Uber and Lyft to swap data on banned drivers

#38

Post by z3c0 » Thu, Mar 11, 2021, 10:30 PM UTC

ceejayoz wrote: post #30

z3c0 wrote: post #27

A noble effort, but I'm certainly concerned about the use of a background check company. This is anecdotal, but I've missed out on a job before due to misreporting from a background check company. The amount of hoops I had to go through to prevent the mistake from happening again took years - and of course, the opportunity for that job was long gone by then. Really, the only proper way to do a background check is via…

> Really, the only proper way to do a background check is via your local law enforcement. What in the history of policing makes you think they're immune to similar mistakes?

There's more legal recourse for a mistake from law enforcement, and furthermore, they aren't going to show cases where you were acquitted. In my case, the background check company reported a crime that I HAD been arrested for but found not guilty of. Background check companies don't do their due diligence in making sure that the records they gather are still valid. I wanted very much to sue the company that cost me that job opportunity, but they've covered their bases enough to shift accountability to the customer.

Basically, they put an asterisk next to their reports saying to take them with a grain of salt. But that doesn't change the damage done by a potential employer getting a peak into your past that they never should have gotten.

Edit: fixed some typos

Re: Uber and Lyft to swap data on banned drivers

#39

Post by simple_phrases » Thu, Mar 11, 2021, 10:33 PM UTC

frakt0x90 wrote: post #2

Airlines do similar things for anything safety related. Having safer airlines is good for business and there's no sense in hoarding that information.

The No-Fly List[1] has been a two decades long quagmire that has put thousands of people into a situation where they're banned from travelling despite doing nothing wrong.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_Fly_List#Vulnerabilities

Re: Uber and Lyft to swap data on banned drivers

#40

Post by badRNG » Thu, Mar 11, 2021, 10:34 PM UTC

ceejayoz wrote: post #30

z3c0 wrote: post #27

A noble effort, but I'm certainly concerned about the use of a background check company. This is anecdotal, but I've missed out on a job before due to misreporting from a background check company. The amount of hoops I had to go through to prevent the mistake from happening again took years - and of course, the opportunity for that job was long gone by then. Really, the only proper way to do a background check is via…

> Really, the only proper way to do a background check is via your local law enforcement. What in the history of policing makes you think they're immune to similar mistakes?

Let's say you are mistaken for a wanted robber and arrested and later acquitted or have the charges dropped, when that record is expunged, there is a legal duty for the government to destroy all records related to that arrest.

If they don't, you have political and legal recourse. A third-party company doesn't have the same legal obligation, nor does the public have any democratic control over that organization. Data companies have institutional pressures to preserve data at all costs, not to be proactive in destroying records of innocent folks.