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Overview of Early Electric Cars

lowtechmagazine.com

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Re: Overview of Early Electric Cars

#31

Post by FullyFunctional »

lurkmurk wrote: post #27
mattlondon wrote: post #25

It is interesting to see sentiment change over the years on hacker news. First EVs were too expensive. Then they were too slow/couldn't tow. Then the range was too small. Now people are griping that they can't "refuel" in 5 mins. I guess we will see what the next excuse becomes for people to continue polluting and why EVs "aren't ready" for their hypothetical/once-a-year/niche needs. Sigh.

But all of those are still true. I would argue that public transport should replace cars for commute which is most of the "non-niche" usage. Public transport can't get you anywhere, on your own terms? Sounds familiar.

They are not simultaneously true. The new Model S Long Range has 412 mi range. All of them can tow, but they are all fairly expensive.

The cheapest Model 3 isn't cheap, but definitely getting there.

Re: Overview of Early Electric Cars

#32

Post by FullyFunctional »

rsj_hn wrote: post #10
samcheng wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With electric you plug the car in overnight while it is parked. It is full every morning, and you never need to go out of your way to charge it unless you are on an intercity trip. It really is more convenient than gasoline!

I don't think most people would consider only charging at home an advantage or "convenience". If you even need to go to a charging station once and spend a half hour to an hour there, that becomes very inconvenient, even if you only need to do that once a month. Most people would like to have a charging station always nearby so that it becomes stateless for them, so that they don't need to think about how much they d…

It's a huge convenience! I love not having to get to the gas station (it always at the least convenient time).

Re: Overview of Early Electric Cars

#33

Post by FullyFunctional »

clouddrover wrote: post #20
geoduck14 wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my opinion, we are trying to solve the "EV range issue" all wrong. We are looking at gas cars, and asking "how can we do the same thing, but with electricity" - and we get a substandard result. What we SHOULD do is: take a step back and ask "what do we REALLY want to achieve". We don't really want long range and fast charge. We DO want worry-free power wherever we choose to go. It isn't a novel concept to suggest:…

> We don't really want long range and fast charge Yes we do. As the article demonstrates, they were making the same arguments 100 years ago. Lack of range and charging speed is why electric cars lost out to ICE cars 100 years ago. ICE cars simply took you further, faster (and still do).

more than 412 mi, faster than a Model S? This argument is completely ridiculous.

Electric is already far superior for every day driving and close to parity for long distance (super charger is fast, but not yet quiet as fast as pumping gas - but if you have kids you'll welcome the break)

Re: Overview of Early Electric Cars

#34

Post by rsj_hn »

samcheng wrote: post #28
rsj_hn wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If a car never breaks down, then you don't need to waste time at a mechanic, either.

This metaphor doesn’t make sense to me. As a matter of course, a gasoline car needs gasoline; unless you live on a farm with delivered fuel, that means going to the gas station for it. An electric car needs only electricity to operate, which is already distributed via wires to everyone’s home. Both cars need tires; electric cars also need significantly less scheduled maintenance. No oil changes, no timing belt, etc.

The point being that estimating the expectation of something by excluding an important part of the event space yields a false estimate. No one believes that everyone always charges their cars at home and that charging stations are not needed, otherwise there would be no demand to build them. But when called out on the inconvenience of these stations there is a retreat to "oh, I only charge at home" and so that is the only case in which to take charge convenience into account.

Re: Overview of Early Electric Cars

#35

Post by bobthepanda »

Nition wrote: post #26
TylerE wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's insane. Inductive charging is wildly inefficient. On typical phone chargers efficiency is about 60-70% max..and it goes down with distance.

So what we really need is a big network of overhead wires, trolleybus style.

Trolleybuses are very niche. The networks at least in North America have not expanded much, and many have shrunk since their heyday, because people find the wires a visual nuisance.

Re: Overview of Early Electric Cars

#36

Post by lurkmurk »

FullyFunctional wrote: post #31
lurkmurk wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But all of those are still true. I would argue that public transport should replace cars for commute which is most of the "non-niche" usage. Public transport can't get you anywhere, on your own terms? Sounds familiar.

They are not simultaneously true. The new Model S Long Range has 412 mi range. All of them can tow, but they are all fairly expensive. The cheapest Model 3 isn't cheap, but definitely getting there.

It's better but not great. Not everyone can afford tesla. Western goverments and big companies are to blame for lack of incentives and infrastructure. People buy what makes the most sense, and petrol is better for many people. This can be changed.

I think that everyone would instantly switch to EV if it had the same properties but had a battery instead of a tank. They are faster, silent, cleaner, but it's up to leaders to bridge the gap making them economically viable.

Re: Overview of Early Electric Cars

#37

Post by Nition »

bobthepanda wrote: post #35
Nition wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So what we really need is a big network of overhead wires, trolleybus style.

Trolleybuses are very niche. The networks at least in North America have not expanded much, and many have shrunk since their heyday, because people find the wires a visual nuisance.

I wasn't really serious. Although I do quite like trolleybuses. Even if the infrastructure existed I'm sure you could never trust the average driver to keep their car attached to the rails; even the buses come off sometimes.

Re: Overview of Early Electric Cars

#38

Post by dvh »

mattlondon wrote: post #25

It is interesting to see sentiment change over the years on hacker news. First EVs were too expensive. Then they were too slow/couldn't tow. Then the range was too small. Now people are griping that they can't "refuel" in 5 mins. I guess we will see what the next excuse becomes for people to continue polluting and why EVs "aren't ready" for their hypothetical/once-a-year/niche needs. Sigh.

Perfect EV (for me) was already made. Citroen Ami. $6000, 75km range.

Re: Overview of Early Electric Cars

#39

Post by fy20 »

Does anyone have any reading material on the history of control systems of electric vehicles? Today most EVs use AC motors with a inverter - a bunch of power transistors - that convert DC to AC, adjusting the frequency as required by the motor (that's what the hum you hear is). However obviously that wasn't the case 100 years ago, or even 50 years ago when electric (trolley) buses were still used in many parts of the world.

Re: Overview of Early Electric Cars

#40

Post by donjoe »

mattlondon wrote: post #25

It is interesting to see sentiment change over the years on hacker news. First EVs were too expensive. Then they were too slow/couldn't tow. Then the range was too small. Now people are griping that they can't "refuel" in 5 mins. I guess we will see what the next excuse becomes for people to continue polluting and why EVs "aren't ready" for their hypothetical/once-a-year/niche needs. Sigh.

Consider living in the early 2000s and replace 'digital camera' vs 'analog camera' with 'dinosaur burning vehicles' vs 'electric vehicles'.

Same discussion, different technology. We all know how it ended ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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