Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Bats and the Origin of Outbreaks

graphics.reuters.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

31–40 of 55 posts

Re: Bats and the Origin of Outbreaks

#31

Post by weinzierl »

nradov wrote: post #16
chasil wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is considerable suspicion that SARS-CoV-2 was enhanced by the Wuhan lab. The simple fact that the species carrying the closest relative of this epidemic was a thousand miles away from Wuhan and was not present at the wet markets in any capacity is sufficient to doubt the narrative. If we want to safeguard our species from zoonotic pandemics, instead of weaponizing them, then a vaccination effort would be better…

You've got to be joking. No one is going to vaccinate millions of wild bats and pangolins.

They vaccinate wild foxes against rabies, so this idea is not that implausible as it might appear at first.

Re: Bats and the Origin of Outbreaks

#32

Post by trevelyan »

Pyramus wrote: post #13
chasil wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is considerable suspicion that SARS-CoV-2 was enhanced by the Wuhan lab. The simple fact that the species carrying the closest relative of this epidemic was a thousand miles away from Wuhan and was not present at the wet markets in any capacity is sufficient to doubt the narrative. If we want to safeguard our species from zoonotic pandemics, instead of weaponizing them, then a vaccination effort would be better…

"Considerable suspicion" is over-selling it in my opinion. The arguments I've heard go along the lines of 'the virus is surprisingly well adapted to humans'. This reasoning, however, is text-book survivor bias: Given we observe a pandemic, the probability for the virus to be well adapted is very high. What we do know is: * There is a highest safety level virus lab in Wuhan. * Lab escapes do and did happen. As far as…

> As far as I know we simply do not have evidence if or if not gain of function research played a role.

You can examine phylogenetic distance -- the degree of evolutionary drift that the initial virus had from others which are subject to natural (in-the-wild) evolution. COVID is way out there. And even then the closest "natural" virus had its genome published by the Wuhan lab long after the initial outbreak.

The lack of any close relatives suggests that gain-of-function very well may have taken place, as does the heightened vulnerability of typical lab-animals. What there isn't much evidence of is zoonotic transfer.

Re: Bats and the Origin of Outbreaks

#34

Post by fireeyed »

The question news media and “investigative journalism” if it exists anymore needs to ask is how come this particular outbreak/ transmission from bats didn’t happen before 2019. The “wet markets” exist all over China and people consumed bats before 2019.

Re: Bats and the Origin of Outbreaks

#35

Post by herodotus »

It seems that the route of infection is through large amounts of the virus being inhaled. What this article does not explain is how this route of transmission can occur from bats to humans. Did it perhaps start when someone went into a bat cave? Otherwise it seems unlikely to me that an infected bat can transmit this particular virus.

Re: Bats and the Origin of Outbreaks

#36

Post by dvh »

herodotus wrote: post #35

It seems that the route of infection is through large amounts of the virus being inhaled. What this article does not explain is how this route of transmission can occur from bats to humans. Did it perhaps start when someone went into a bat cave? Otherwise it seems unlikely to me that an infected bat can transmit this particular virus.

Bats are eaten in China. Half cooked bat could transmit the disease.

Re: Bats and the Origin of Outbreaks

#37

Post by michaelrubin »

dvh wrote: post #36
herodotus wrote: post #35

It seems that the route of infection is through large amounts of the virus being inhaled. What this article does not explain is how this route of transmission can occur from bats to humans. Did it perhaps start when someone went into a bat cave? Otherwise it seems unlikely to me that an infected bat can transmit this particular virus.

Bats are eaten in China. Half cooked bat could transmit the disease.

Do we have evidence that ingesting infected tissue can transmit the disease? I thought the disease spread via inhalation of viral particles?

Re: Bats and the Origin of Outbreaks

#38

Post by bluGill »

seanwilson wrote: post #5

> Changes in the environment are driving displaced species of animals into new habitats, allowing them to mix with other species or potential hosts. Outside of reactionary comments about banning eating bats and banning "wet markets", I wish there was more serious discussion about how intensive animal farming in general could lead to another pandemic and what we're going to do about it. We're just going to continue as…

You clearly don't know much about modern farming, but do not a lot about the tropes that the anti-animal agriculture movement have brought out.

Antibiotics are not functional against viruses. They don't make any difference. Where antibiotics are used it must be under qualified medical care, farmers can't just go buy them at the corner store, any more than you can. (15 years ago they could buy them, I don't remember exactly when the laws changed) Even when they are used (never in chickens), there can be not detectable antibiotics in food, and we can detect very tiny amounts.

Animals in close proximity are very isolated. Farmers have strict bio security rules before you can enter the barns.

Re: Bats and the Origin of Outbreaks

#39

Post by snarf21 »

seanwilson wrote: post #5

> Changes in the environment are driving displaced species of animals into new habitats, allowing them to mix with other species or potential hosts. Outside of reactionary comments about banning eating bats and banning "wet markets", I wish there was more serious discussion about how intensive animal farming in general could lead to another pandemic and what we're going to do about it. We're just going to continue as…

So true. A lot of our virus come from birds. Viruses are like most invasive species. If you take them out of their normal habitat, they can thrive in a way that is unexpected and uncontrollable.

Re: Bats and the Origin of Outbreaks

#40

Post by seanwilson »

bluGill wrote: post #38
seanwilson wrote: post #5

> Changes in the environment are driving displaced species of animals into new habitats, allowing them to mix with other species or potential hosts. Outside of reactionary comments about banning eating bats and banning "wet markets", I wish there was more serious discussion about how intensive animal farming in general could lead to another pandemic and what we're going to do about it. We're just going to continue as…

You clearly don't know much about modern farming, but do not a lot about the tropes that the anti-animal agriculture movement have brought out. Antibiotics are not functional against viruses. They don't make any difference. Where antibiotics are used it must be under qualified medical care, farmers can't just go buy them at the corner store, any more than you can. (15 years ago they could buy them, I don't remember e…

Yep, I muddled words there but antibiotic resistance is a related concern:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antibiotic_use_in_livestock#An...

  "This is a growing matter of concern as antibiotic resistance is considered to be a serious future threat to human welfare.[10] Infectious diseases are the third leading cause of death in Europe and a future without effective antibiotics would fundamentally change the way modern medicine is practised.[10][12]"
> Animals in close proximity are very isolated. Farmers have strict bio security rules before you can enter the barns.

How does this explain the number of outbreaks of swine flu in multiple countries? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Influenza_A_virus_subtype_H1N1

Post reply on HN