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The Challenges of Integrating the Unix and Mac OS Environments (2000)

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Re: The Challenges of Integrating the Unix and Mac OS Environments (2000)

#31
post #21
post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think resource forks suck. That said, I think metadata about a file outside of the file has always been problematic. I don't know if there's ever been a clean solution to timestamps, r/w/x, ACLs and more.

I’m curious, could you expand a little bit on why you think resource forks suck?

Resource forks attract unresolved clutter.

It's like having an attic or a garage where you can put stuff while you (do not) decide what to do with it.

Then you carry around this clutter everywhere.

Developers might add something to a resource fork that should go in the file.

Utilities have to deal with files AND resource forks.

You have to backup a file, but then you also have to back up the resource fork.

If it goes to another filesystem you have to figure out how to deal with it if the filesystem deals with only, you know, files.

so what if the file and the resource fork are separated? Then you have a file that might not work.

this burden is carried by the developers, the administrators, the users.

There are plenty of analogous situations to this, like ftp

ftp used to have two connections - a control connection and a separate data connection.

Then when you had a firewall, you had to deal with an outgoing connection, plus an outgoing or incoming data connection.

Then they added passive mode, and you only had to deal with two connections in the same direction, but there had to be special firewall logic to track them both.

Re: The Challenges of Integrating the Unix and Mac OS Environments (2000)

#32
post #31
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m curious, could you expand a little bit on why you think resource forks suck?

Resource forks attract unresolved clutter. It's like having an attic or a garage where you can put stuff while you (do not) decide what to do with it. Then you carry around this clutter everywhere. Developers might add something to a resource fork that should go in the file. Utilities have to deal with files AND resource forks. You have to backup a file, but then you also have to back up the resource fork. If it goes…

It seems as if 100% of your criticisms have to do with exactly the issue in this article: Nobody supports resource forks but MacOS. So yeah, working with resource forks on systems that don't support them sucks.

This is why I miss them, but understand that they're not used any more.

Re: The Challenges of Integrating the Unix and Mac OS Environments (2000)

#33
post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Resource forks attract unresolved clutter. It's like having an attic or a garage where you can put stuff while you (do not) decide what to do with it. Then you carry around this clutter everywhere. Developers might add something to a resource fork that should go in the file. Utilities have to deal with files AND resource forks. You have to backup a file, but then you also have to back up the resource fork. If it goes…

It seems as if 100% of your criticisms have to do with exactly the issue in this article: Nobody supports resource forks but MacOS. So yeah, working with resource forks on systems that don't support them sucks. This is why I miss them, but understand that they're not used any more.

I think I didn't properly communicate.

Resource forks let you put stuff outside of files that can and should go inside them. Now people have to look two places, or even be aware there are two places.

Re: The Challenges of Integrating the Unix and Mac OS Environments (2000)

#34
post #10
post #2

I still remember being in awe that they pulled this off at all, clumsy as some of the compromises were. Newer filesystems and application designs have eliminated many of the differences, although I still miss resource forks.

Correct me if I'm wrong here, but macOS still has resource forks, right? My understanding is that's where file tags, file comments and custom file icons are stored.

It has extended attributes instead. You can look at them with `xattr -l /path/to/file`. Tags go into `com.apple.FinderInfo`, and resource forks are, predictably, `com.apple.ResourceFork`, though they're probably still stored in a format classic Mac OS understands.

Re: The Challenges of Integrating the Unix and Mac OS Environments (2000)

#35
Apple seems to have a long history of integrations of Mac OS (and the Mac user interface) and UNIX, starting in the 1980s and continuing through today: A/UX, AWS (Apple Workgroup Server), MAE, Rhapsody, OS X, modern macOS...

Not to mention the OS X-like variants for their other platforms: iOS, tvOS, iPadOS, watchOS...

Also consider the various Mach implementations on Apple hardware: MacMach, MachTen, MkLinux, OS X/Darwin...

Sadly it seems that the classic Mac API died when Carbon and 32-bit apps died, so you can't easily port old Mac apps to modern macOS. macOS (and iOS) seem to have a rather poor record for backward compatibility, and it's only going to get worse with the current architectural switch to Apple Silicon...

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