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Japan to stage Tokyo Olympics without overseas spectators

japantoday.com

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Re: Japan to stage Tokyo Olympics without overseas spectators

#31

Post by timr »

lhl wrote: post #28
timr wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Whatever Tokyo is doing to keep COVID under control with such a crazy high population density, it looks like we've got an entire state over here in the U.S. that could still learn some of the basics. I lived in Japan, have many friends there whom I keep in touch with, and watch the local news regularly. The restrictions in the major cities have been substantially fewer than we've had here in the US. There have been…

It’s true that Japan has done many non-optimal things, but the biggest difference from the west IMO is that there has been close to 100% mask usage (eyeballing in Tokyo, about 95% surgical masks) for over a year now. Any Japanese who see things like Idaho’s recent mask burning protests are simply bewildered. Of course, people take their masks off when eating out, but still keep them on while ordering and waiting for…

> the biggest difference from the west IMO is that there has been close to 100% mask usage (eyeballing in Tokyo, about 95% surgical masks) for over a year now

I had something in there about this, but deleted it because I thought it was distracting from the main point, and any mention of masks brings out the politics.

That said: I see an...well, let's just call it interesting...number of Japanese people socializing in small restaurants, bars, etc. without wearing masks. Likewise, it's really common to see TV talent wandering around Tokyo wearing no mask, or one of those teeny tiny transparent plastic chin-visor things [1]. I see it literally every day (via facebook, instagram, LINE, etc.) Try to wear one of those in a grocery store in San Francisco or New York. I dare you.

Is this "proof"? No, of course not. But I do roll my eyes when people present Japan as a magical masking wonderland. The truth is more complicated. Just like New York or SF right now, people walk around with masks on the street, where they do ~no good. They then go inside to tiny, crowded bars and restaurants...and take off their masks. At the very least, this is all a bit overblown.

(If you want my speculation, I think the fact that Japanese people have a culture of being quiet probably plays a bigger role than masks. There aren't a lot of people talking loudly in crowded public spaces. Except for bars and restaurants, people are quiet and respectful of shared space. One of the things I loved most about living there.)

[1] https://p.globalsources.com/IMAGES/PDT/BIG/614/B1176919614.j...

Re: Japan to stage Tokyo Olympics without overseas spectators

#32

Post by anm89 »

SiVal wrote: post #30
anm89 wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Like the dollars all those Europeans are bringing? I get that there is a grain of truth in what you are saying but this is mostly an outdated mode of thinking. The Japanese economy has plenty of access to $ denominated capital markets if they wanted $.

Yes, Europeans bring the metaphorical "dollars" I referred to. And there is no "if they wanted $". They do. And I mean earning dollars, not buying them on international markets. I have access to capital markets, too, and I can buy any currency I want, but buying money is not the same as earning it.

They want investment. They aren't facing a shortage of any specific currency. As i mentioned, if their shortage was currency specific, they have access to capital and forex markets.

I will repeat. The Japanese don't have any specific need for dollars that they can't fulfill on a balance of payments basis. Some countries do. But Japan doesn't.

Re: Japan to stage Tokyo Olympics without overseas spectators

#33

Post by Auracle »

someperson wrote: post #13
steelframe wrote: post #12

> it peaked at more than 2,500 cases per day in Tokyo That's 0.027% of the population of Tokyo per day in a city that has over 6,000 people packed in per square kilometer. By comparison, Idaho has a population density of 7.64 people per square kilometer, and right now the infection rate there is 0.021% of its population per day. That's only a 30% difference in percentage of population infected per day, but there are…

Taiwan (and Vietnam) both have high densities in their cities, but low COVID numbers.. So there's definitely countries that have handled it better than Japan.

I don’t think it’s a coincidence that all of the countries that are doing the best (that aren’t isolated islands) are in the same geographic region that the virus came from.

Whether it’s some sort of evolved protection from a similar virus in the past or similar viruses being common in the present, there’s definitely a reason.

Re: Japan to stage Tokyo Olympics without overseas spectators

#34

Post by nradov »

lhl wrote: post #28
timr wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Whatever Tokyo is doing to keep COVID under control with such a crazy high population density, it looks like we've got an entire state over here in the U.S. that could still learn some of the basics. I lived in Japan, have many friends there whom I keep in touch with, and watch the local news regularly. The restrictions in the major cities have been substantially fewer than we've had here in the US. There have been…

It’s true that Japan has done many non-optimal things, but the biggest difference from the west IMO is that there has been close to 100% mask usage (eyeballing in Tokyo, about 95% surgical masks) for over a year now. Any Japanese who see things like Idaho’s recent mask burning protests are simply bewildered. Of course, people take their masks off when eating out, but still keep them on while ordering and waiting for…

I am skeptical that mask usage is the major factor. The lower obesity rate probably has a larger impact.

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41574-020-00462-1

Re: Japan to stage Tokyo Olympics without overseas spectators

#35

Post by ffggvv »

nradov wrote: post #34
lhl wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s true that Japan has done many non-optimal things, but the biggest difference from the west IMO is that there has been close to 100% mask usage (eyeballing in Tokyo, about 95% surgical masks) for over a year now. Any Japanese who see things like Idaho’s recent mask burning protests are simply bewildered. Of course, people take their masks off when eating out, but still keep them on while ordering and waiting for…

I am skeptical that mask usage is the major factor. The lower obesity rate probably has a larger impact. https://www.nature.com/articles/s41574-020-00462-1

people in the US are just obsessed with the mask thing cuz it feeds their lib “trust the science” mentality even though it’s obviously the obesity rate that makes the difference.

Re: Japan to stage Tokyo Olympics without overseas spectators

#36

Post by jobigoud »

nradov wrote: post #34
lhl wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s true that Japan has done many non-optimal things, but the biggest difference from the west IMO is that there has been close to 100% mask usage (eyeballing in Tokyo, about 95% surgical masks) for over a year now. Any Japanese who see things like Idaho’s recent mask burning protests are simply bewildered. Of course, people take their masks off when eating out, but still keep them on while ordering and waiting for…

I am skeptical that mask usage is the major factor. The lower obesity rate probably has a larger impact. https://www.nature.com/articles/s41574-020-00462-1

The comparison was on case rate. Being obese doesn't make you more likely to catch the virus afaik.

Re: Japan to stage Tokyo Olympics without overseas spectators

#37

Post by someperson »

Auracle wrote: post #33
someperson wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Taiwan (and Vietnam) both have high densities in their cities, but low COVID numbers.. So there's definitely countries that have handled it better than Japan.

I don’t think it’s a coincidence that all of the countries that are doing the best (that aren’t isolated islands) are in the same geographic region that the virus came from. Whether it’s some sort of evolved protection from a similar virus in the past or similar viruses being common in the present, there’s definitely a reason.

The success of countries like New Zealand, Taiwan, Vietnam and Australia is widely attributed stringent border control, localized quarantine and mass testing when outbreaks occur.

I haven't seen any suggestions that the region has a higher acquired immunity to coronaviruses. And other countries in the region (Japan, Indonesia, India and China) had high numbers of infections and fatalities.

Re: Japan to stage Tokyo Olympics without overseas spectators

#38

Post by nradov »

jobigoud wrote: post #36
nradov wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am skeptical that mask usage is the major factor. The lower obesity rate probably has a larger impact. https://www.nature.com/articles/s41574-020-00462-1

The comparison was on case rate. Being obese doesn't make you more likely to catch the virus afaik.

Case rates can't be usefully compared between countries because they all have different testing practices. Being obese actually does make you more likely to catch the virus.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7430889/

Re: Japan to stage Tokyo Olympics without overseas spectators

#39

Post by CaptainZapp »

HeavenFox wrote: post #18

This seems like the worst outcome for Japan and best outcome for the IOC. Japan incurs all the cost of hosting the Olympics while reaping none of the tourist yen, while the IOC gets paid the broadcasting fee. At this point the optimal outcome for Japan is probably to cancel the game altogether. Is it an example of the political pull of the IOC? The Asian culture of face-saving? Or plain old sunk cost fallacy? I hones…

What's the alternative, really?

Essentially letting billions of $ of infrastructure go to complete waste?

That said, I agree with you. Then again the host city always pulls the shit end of the stick when organizing such an event.

Re: Japan to stage Tokyo Olympics without overseas spectators

#40

Post by SiVal »

anm89 wrote: post #32
SiVal wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, Europeans bring the metaphorical "dollars" I referred to. And there is no "if they wanted $". They do. And I mean earning dollars, not buying them on international markets. I have access to capital markets, too, and I can buy any currency I want, but buying money is not the same as earning it.

They want investment. They aren't facing a shortage of any specific currency. As i mentioned, if their shortage was currency specific, they have access to capital and forex markets. I will repeat. The Japanese don't have any specific need for dollars that they can't fulfill on a balance of payments basis. Some countries do. But Japan doesn't.

You don't seem to understand the difference between earning dollars and exchanging currency. I'm not claiming they face a "shortage of a specific currency". I'm saying they want to earn money from foreign customers, not exchange currency with them, and that (nationally) they would prefer earning money from foreign customers to earning it from each other.

Earning money from foreign customers gives the Japanese as a nation purchasing power of future foreign assets, such as oil, food, or land outside Japan. It makes their country wealthier in the world. Exchanging currency does no such thing, because it gives the foreigners an equal claim against future Japanese assets: no net gain in wealth. Selling to each other also does not give them (as a nation) the increased buying power outside Japan that selling their goods and services for foreign dollars gives them.

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