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A Cephalopod Has Passed a Cognitive Test Designed for Human Children

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Re: A Cephalopod Has Passed a Cognitive Test Designed for Human Children

#31

Post by rbanffy »

bryanrasmussen wrote: post #29
luplex wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a human researcher, I don't think that's a fair comparison. A 2.5-year-old human can talk in simple sentences. The experiments in that article don't really measure intelligence. Babies are just much more curious. I think dogs are still surprisingly smart.

By that argument no animal, dolphin, porpoise, dog, gorilla, elephant can be as intelligent as a 2.5 year old baby because none of them have evolved a tongue and vocal apparatus capable of making the correct sounds.

I know a dog that sings along when his humans sing. It's obviously not a human voice, but the little thing is trying his best and totally nails the pitch and rhythm.

Re: A Cephalopod Has Passed a Cognitive Test Designed for Human Children

#32

Post by rbanffy »

emilecantin wrote: post #28
goodcanadian wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From the article: Some primates can delay gratification, along with dogs, albeit inconsistently. Corvids, too, have passed the marshmallow test. Having had a couple of human children, I would definitely not claim that they are anything but extremely clever, but then so are many primates, dogs, and corvids.

Yes. Children are literally little humans. They have enormous brainpower, they just lack the experience they need to use it properly.

That and their brains are insanely malleable. As someone who contemplated learning Irish as an adult, I have to say that their brains can do things ours simply can't.

And I learned Hungarian (and Portuguese) as a kid.

Re: A Cephalopod Has Passed a Cognitive Test Designed for Human Children

#33

Post by spijdar »

bryanrasmussen wrote: post #29
luplex wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a human researcher, I don't think that's a fair comparison. A 2.5-year-old human can talk in simple sentences. The experiments in that article don't really measure intelligence. Babies are just much more curious. I think dogs are still surprisingly smart.

By that argument no animal, dolphin, porpoise, dog, gorilla, elephant can be as intelligent as a 2.5 year old baby because none of them have evolved a tongue and vocal apparatus capable of making the correct sounds.

> because none of them have evolved a tongue and vocal apparatus capable of making the correct sounds.

And the neurological development to process and produce speech. I'm no cognitive scientist but I think verbal speech and reasoning is a huge amount of what we call "intelligence" in humans and goes beyond simple communication of immediate facts or commands. I suspect babies do have similar problem solving abilities compared to those animals, but I think it's disingenuous to throw out speech just because a dog hasn't evolved vocal chords. They're also missing the brain to use them, with whatever that means for reasoning.

Re: A Cephalopod Has Passed a Cognitive Test Designed for Human Children

#34

Post by choxi »

hermitcrab wrote: post #12

If anyone is interested in cephalopod intelligence I heartily recommend the book: "Other Minds: The Octopus and the Evolution of Intelligent Life" by Peter Godfrey-Smith.

One of the most interesting concepts in the book was "efference copies." The idea is that your mind needs to distinguish between stimulus that you caused by voluntary action (moving your arm) versus stimulus that the environment causes (your arm being moved by something else), so you send these "echos" of your voluntary actions back to your brain and this is possibly where your sense of self comes from.

Re: A Cephalopod Has Passed a Cognitive Test Designed for Human Children

#35

Post by 40four »

I agree with the main thesis of the article, stated in the first paragraph. That idea of ”how important it is for us humans to not underestimate animal intelligence”.

I think folks in modern times are less & less prone to thinking animals are ‘dumb’. But 1 or 2 generations ago this was not the case. I think humans for a long time have regarded animal intelligence in an inferior light.

Cephalopods have proven to to be incredibly intelligent, and emotional. I think you could easily argue many of them are smarter than human children, maybe even a lot of adults :)

I highly recommend an episode of ‘Nature’ I saw recently on PBS about octopi. It’s called “Octopus: Making Contact”. It’s the story of a professor who decided to install a tank and keep an octopus in his home, and the relationship he & his daughter developed with it. Absolutely stunning!

https://www.pbs.org/wnet/nature/octopus-making-contact-previ...

https://www.pbs.org/wnet/nature/baby-cephalopods-first-momen...

Re: A Cephalopod Has Passed a Cognitive Test Designed for Human Children

#36

Post by sokoloff »

rbanffy wrote: post #31
bryanrasmussen wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By that argument no animal, dolphin, porpoise, dog, gorilla, elephant can be as intelligent as a 2.5 year old baby because none of them have evolved a tongue and vocal apparatus capable of making the correct sounds.

I know a dog that sings along when his humans sing. It's obviously not a human voice, but the little thing is trying his best and totally nails the pitch and rhythm.

Our dog will howl along with some of the emergency vehicle sirens. Remarkably similar to the particular siren that is sounding outside. (We live on a 4 lane parkway an easy walking distance from a major hospital, so we get different sirens from many different jurisdictions. She'll sing (edit: said sign before) along or in back-and-forth with about 1/3 of the distinct sirens.)

Re: A Cephalopod Has Passed a Cognitive Test Designed for Human Children

#37

Post by please-reread »

sokoloff wrote: post #36
rbanffy wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know a dog that sings along when his humans sing. It's obviously not a human voice, but the little thing is trying his best and totally nails the pitch and rhythm.

Our dog will howl along with some of the emergency vehicle sirens. Remarkably similar to the particular siren that is sounding outside. (We live on a 4 lane parkway an easy walking distance from a major hospital, so we get different sirens from many different jurisdictions. She'll sing (edit: said sign before) along or in back-and-forth with about 1/3 of the distinct sirens.)

She also can sign? That's amazing!

Re: A Cephalopod Has Passed a Cognitive Test Designed for Human Children

#38

Post by steve_adams_86 »

40four wrote: post #35

I agree with the main thesis of the article, stated in the first paragraph. That idea of ”how important it is for us humans to not underestimate animal intelligence” . I think folks in modern times are less & less prone to thinking animals are ‘dumb’. But 1 or 2 generations ago this was not the case. I think humans for a long time have regarded animal intelligence in an inferior light. Cephalopods have proven to to b…

I believe I underestimated animal intelligence, and as an extension of that, animal consciousness. I have no proof that animals are intelligent or sentient or whatever. I do however have no reason to assume otherwise. As a result I’ve stopped eating meat almost entirely, and I suspect I’ll eliminate it entirely eventually. I still eat fish and shellfish.

I struggle to understand how I disregarded animal minds for decades, but I suspect it can be reduced to arrogance, convenience, and gluttony. It has been a difficult revelation in some ways. Cooking meat has almost been a part of my way of life; it’s something I took pride in and always did to the best of my ability. Now I don’t really have much interest in food at all.

Re: A Cephalopod Has Passed a Cognitive Test Designed for Human Children

#39

Post by macintux »

40four wrote: post #35

I agree with the main thesis of the article, stated in the first paragraph. That idea of ”how important it is for us humans to not underestimate animal intelligence” . I think folks in modern times are less & less prone to thinking animals are ‘dumb’. But 1 or 2 generations ago this was not the case. I think humans for a long time have regarded animal intelligence in an inferior light. Cephalopods have proven to to b…

Every time I read about octopi I'm stunned at their intelligence and ability to connect with humans.

If our civilization lasts long enough, someday we'll all be reviled for eating animals, especially octopi and pigs.

Re: A Cephalopod Has Passed a Cognitive Test Designed for Human Children

#40

Post by wizzwizz4 »

luplex wrote: post #26
bryanrasmussen wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://www.vox.com/2015/4/7/8360143/dogs-intelligence-scien... On the whole, psychologist and dog researcher Stanley Coren estimates, the average dog's intelligence is roughly as sophisticated as a 2.5-year-old baby's.

As a human researcher, I don't think that's a fair comparison. A 2.5-year-old human can talk in simple sentences. The experiments in that article don't really measure intelligence. Babies are just much more curious. I think dogs are still surprisingly smart.

Dogs can also talk in simple (https://yewtu.be/watch?v=AHiu-EDJUx0
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