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Ismail al-Jazari – the medieval 'Father of Robotics'

nationalgeographic.com

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Re: Ismail al-Jazari – the medieval 'Father of Robotics'

#31

Post by qersist3nce »

2Gkashmiri wrote: post #2

in my family there has been a simple question being raised for as many years i can remember but there has never been a satisfactory answer yet. "if early muslims had all the science, mathematics, geography, philosophy and all fields of science including hundreds of scientists who laid down the foundations of modern science with their works, what happened 800 years ago that all that science just vanished?" Then years…

The sudden "thing" that happened was Mongol Invasion[0].

Imagine Germany in 1945 losing the war, only having one major library, and the allies burn it down, decimate the population to 10% of the prior count[1], and throw the books down to Rhine River "...in such quantities that the river ran black with the ink from the books"[2].

The Mongols just invaded, pillaged and killed in a mind-less fashion. Middle-east was unlucky cause it was just geographically near them. They also wreaked havoc on China, Korea and Russia. Japan was lucky that storm sank their ships (which were forcibly built by conquered Chinese)

I have not studied al-Ghazali but I think the good'ol war had the major role in this decline and the current state of the middle east.

[0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Baghdad_(1258)

[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Destruction_under_the_Mongol_E...

[2]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/House_of_Wisdom#Destruction_by...

Re: Ismail al-Jazari – the medieval 'Father of Robotics'

#32

Post by idlewords »

selimthegrim wrote: post #28
2Gkashmiri wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

thank you. I will be going through this book as early as possible.

Nitpick: “...as soon as possible” sounds more natural to native speakers Ulugh Beg’s observatory was what Ottomans’ short lived one was built to compete with

What sounds most natural to native speakers is not correcting people's language unasked.

Re: Ismail al-Jazari – the medieval 'Father of Robotics'

#33

Post by [deleted] »

2Gkashmiri wrote: post #2

in my family there has been a simple question being raised for as many years i can remember but there has never been a satisfactory answer yet. "if early muslims had all the science, mathematics, geography, philosophy and all fields of science including hundreds of scientists who laid down the foundations of modern science with their works, what happened 800 years ago that all that science just vanished?" Then years…

[deleted]

Re: Ismail al-Jazari – the medieval 'Father of Robotics'

#34

Post by mavelikara »

2Gkashmiri wrote: post #2

in my family there has been a simple question being raised for as many years i can remember but there has never been a satisfactory answer yet. "if early muslims had all the science, mathematics, geography, philosophy and all fields of science including hundreds of scientists who laid down the foundations of modern science with their works, what happened 800 years ago that all that science just vanished?" Then years…

> , if this is true, then this fucking asshole is responsible for causing immeasurable harm to "science" as a human idea on the whole.

Irrespective of what you think of the theory, it will help us all if we could identify and prevent the people among us now who could cause such harm to humanity.

Re: Ismail al-Jazari – the medieval 'Father of Robotics'

#35

Post by Cyph0n »

2Gkashmiri wrote: post #2

in my family there has been a simple question being raised for as many years i can remember but there has never been a satisfactory answer yet. "if early muslims had all the science, mathematics, geography, philosophy and all fields of science including hundreds of scientists who laid down the foundations of modern science with their works, what happened 800 years ago that all that science just vanished?" Then years…

As others have already mentioned, blaming the decline solely on al-Ghazali is the simplistic, orientalist view. Neil deGrasse Tyson recently helped propagate this argument as well.

The reality was much more complex.

If you’re interested, I’d suggest checking out Dr. George Saliba’s writings on this topic. A good start is “Islamic Science and the Making of the European Renaissance”. For a shorter intro, check out this lecture [1].

[1] https://youtu.be/66bV1rdMois

Re: Ismail al-Jazari – the medieval 'Father of Robotics'

#36

Post by Cyph0n »

selimthegrim wrote: post #19
keiferski wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Al-Jazari lived centuries before the Ottomans existed. Otherwise, having studied the Ottomans extensively, I wouldn’t say they chose stability over anything else. Their slow downfall was due more to a gradual fossilization of their institutions. For example, the Janissaries went from a highly-trained elite force to essentially a social club that everyone wanted to join. The sultans themselves also gradually became le…

Two black marks in my book Selim I banning the printing press and and destruction of Taqiuddin’s observatory under Murad III

The printing press ban probably had a huge impact. It was much easier to spread ideas if you didn’t have to transcribe them by hand.

Re: Ismail al-Jazari – the medieval 'Father of Robotics'

#37

Post by you_know_the_ »

2Gkashmiri wrote: post #2

in my family there has been a simple question being raised for as many years i can remember but there has never been a satisfactory answer yet. "if early muslims had all the science, mathematics, geography, philosophy and all fields of science including hundreds of scientists who laid down the foundations of modern science with their works, what happened 800 years ago that all that science just vanished?" Then years…

I would say the crusade to blame for the decline of Muslims golden age. When the crusade started around 12 century, it brought devision among Muslims and Christians in places such as Iraq, Syria, Lebanon and Palestine. For centuries, Muslims, Christians and Jews lived next to each other and collaborated with each other but the crusade killed that friendship.

Re: Ismail al-Jazari – the medieval 'Father of Robotics'

#38

Post by heavenlyblue »

artem247 wrote: post #16
2Gkashmiri wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

no. You are not answering my question. you are simply saying dont blame ghazali. My question is, what caused the death of "desire for scientific temper" and economic conditions do not change someones quest for knowledge or for that matter, influence an entire population away from science who took to avoid it like the plague. I had this talk with a guy last week and when i mentioned ghazali, he said something on the l…

>> economic conditions do not change someones quest for knowledge In my country science almost ceased to exist after the fall of Soviet Union. So economic conditions do play a role. The western Age of Reason in XVIII also has relationship to complex changes in the society - rise of merchant class, acceptance of usury, etc. And I would say that "whole population avoids science like a plague" would be a strong overstat…

I would like to see what the OP would do if they were suddenly forced to live in the Stone Age. Would they spend time doing philosophising or restoring the civilisation and actually feeding themselves?

Re: Ismail al-Jazari – the medieval 'Father of Robotics'

#39

Post by selimthegrim »

idlewords wrote: post #32
selimthegrim wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nitpick: “...as soon as possible” sounds more natural to native speakers Ulugh Beg’s observatory was what Ottomans’ short lived one was built to compete with

What sounds most natural to native speakers is not correcting people's language unasked.

Fair enough, but he and I share a native non-English language, so I thought I was being helpful.

Re: Ismail al-Jazari – the medieval 'Father of Robotics'

#40

Post by BeetleB »

idlewords wrote: post #32
selimthegrim wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nitpick: “...as soon as possible” sounds more natural to native speakers Ulugh Beg’s observatory was what Ottomans’ short lived one was built to compete with

What sounds most natural to native speakers is not correcting people's language unasked.

A lot of people hate being corrected on language, but many welcome it. In my life, I've certainly had my fair share of people come to me upset saying "I've been saying it wrong all this time and you never told me!"

Best not to jump to conclusions about the speaker's wishes.

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